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Speak your brains

Hello there,

We're planning A New Thing here at LXF Towers, and as part of that we need to know what you think. Not just random thoughts mind; we want to know what you think about Mono.
Is it bloated junk, or does it point the way to a brave new cross-platform world? Does not-invented-here syndrome mean you'll not touch it with a barge pole, or do wonder how you ever got by without the likes of Banshee, Beagle and F-Spot?
Whatever your thoughts, we'd like to stimulate what might in recent years have been called a Big Conversation, so post below and watch this space for news on Newness.


Your comments

Features of a programming

Features of a programming environment are not the only thing that matters; who controls the standards and API upon which that environment runs also matters. So, that should take into account the influence of those that created the original API's.

These are the things that I consider before learning yet another programming environment or language.

I love the apps, and C# is

I love the apps, and C# is the best language ever! And, yes, I do like the Windows compatibiliy...

I agree with person-b. I was

I agree with person-b. I was a little cynical at first, but I tried C# as part of the You Can Code LXF special and I really liked it. While Python is my favourite language I do really like C# in terms of how easy it is to develop graphical apps. So I'm really glad Mono is there so we can use it on Linux. If you don't like it you don't have to use it.

I second TesserId. Control

I second TesserId. Control of the standards is important,and in this case it looks like mono is always going to be one step behind the official implementation, certainly for those components of the stack not submitted to the ECMA. It's once again a case of Microsoft taking a standard and then extending it with proprietary (and patented?) "features". Java, anyone? This time they introduced the standard themselves and then extended it! Is this really something you want to encourage?

On the whole, none of the applications you mention have crossed my path yet (I guess they are gnome apps?). Personally, if I want cross-platform, I'll go Java or Perl, since the reference implementation of those is open source and they are fairly good languages. Still, you can't beat a POSIX platform and a well-written C++ application.

My concern about (learning)

My concern about (learning) C# is not so much that it's from M$ but history repeating itself.

A few years ago I was just getting to grips with Visual Basic 6 when they pulled the rug out with 'new & improved' VB.net, and like many others I threw my hands in the air and thought 'Forget it!".

If they were to revamp the whole C# shebang, would Mono follow suite...?

Having said that, I've signed up for Paul's 'Coding Academy'. :)

I'm one of those people who

I'm one of those people who find the NIH mentality utterly ludicrous, and occasionally take people to task about it on forums (though I have to be careful not to stray into troll territory or start a flame war...). In any case, the Mono runtime/framework is not entirely compatible with the .NET framwork, but bares a 'resemblance'. So, start of rant:

You can't just 'discount' technology because it uses a plug-in or propreitary technology you don't like. Tomboy, F-Spot and Banshee are excellent apps. Most end-users neither know or care what language or framework they're written in - they just care about what's important: It's open source.

If nothing from Mono is acknowledged by the FOSS community, then essentially you could take this point and run with it. "Your app runs on Windows? That's propreitary, that's not open source...", "You used Visual C++ rather than ANSI C++? That's not open source...", "You're using the Flash plugin in Ubuntu? That's not open source...".
These people need to get used to the fact that for the majority of people it is near-impossible to run a 'pure' and 'aesthetic' free system and do what they do on a day-to-day basis, and that FOSS isn't just about making your apps 'purer than pure', but about ensuring that your FOSS works and integrates with existing solutions, and that it does it BETTER than the propreitary solution. FOSS is done to fit a particular need, but if you find it helpful, then you are free to use it as you like - apps should be analysed by technical merit, not by the platforms they run on or the frameworks/languages they use!

Rant over - Bring on the flames! :D

Hey, I had never used Mono

Hey,

I had never used Mono or C# before, but I thought I'd give it a try Pre-Hudzilla Academy, and I love them both! I've found Mono very easy to use, it runs smoothly, and I love the 'Fill-In-The-Blanks' help that it gives. I've noticed that if I get some code wrong, it won't 'Fill-In-The-Blanks' for me, so it's a great way to spot mistakes early. I love the ability to add classes to my code and have it set up a template for me before I even begin. I would recommend using Mono to anyone, it has made learning to code fun!

P.S. What happens if you're Dis-Lek-Sik and are unable to complete the spam protection?

Well as someone that works

Well as someone that works with .Net all day I would say it does the job that is intended.

However, my opinion of the API against that of say QT is that it could do with some refinement and re factoring. I certainly wouldn't use it because of the NIH issue but I tend to pick OS's and tools based on their performance. Hence I run Linux. I'll be honest and say that I use it because it's the technically better OS not because it is free. That is why if I was going to write a commercial application I would be writing it using QT.

Personally if you are gona run a tutorial series then I would say that running it on Mono makes it quite GNOME centric. That's fine and I'm not against that but I would personally prefer to see python, QT or even KBasic tutorials included as well.

I do not think I use any

I do not think I use any Mono apps. I am currently running Gnome again (forcing it on myself to try it out again) and I do not use Beagle, F-Spot or the awful Banshee). I will take a look, but I just have not seen it as relevant yet, from my point of view the applications created with it are not there yet and lacking in functionality.

MonoDevelop & Mono - in

MonoDevelop & Mono - in my opinion - is very good, but I would like to see it become more stable.I don't know if it's just my computer but when adding a menubar, for example, it would crash (this may have been fixed in a new version, it's just I haven't tried it). Like MattBD python is my fav language.

Another link references this

Another link references this one, and basically tells everyone to "zip on over" and say negative things about mono.

Sorry, but I don't have anything negative. It works incredibly well. I even use mono/ikvm to run java code. I've pulled the Apache Ant and ActiveMQ jars into mono and implemented workflows with minimal effort. The only thing scary about mono, is how easy it is to get stuff done.

Which link was that? My

Which link was that? My troll club is matted in dust and needs a good work out! lol :D

But seriously - any respectable forum community should ignore people who do that sort of thing. The 'report abuse' link tends to be very handy for this kind of person (regardless of whether you share their viewpoint, including (in my case) trolls on Mac forums!)

Actually it was Hudzilla who

Actually it was Hudzilla who suggested folk come here, not specifically to slag off Mono, but just an invite those who *don't* like it to share their views in order, I presume, to balance things out

pwbrum61: naturally we're

pwbrum61: naturally we're looking to get both sides of the argument, but in my post I did try to make it clear that people who are fans of Mono are just as welcome to post as people who aren't!

Anway, the discussion is somewhat moot now, because The New Thing has now been recorded. *hint* ;)

This is an easy question to

This is an easy question to sort out... unit C# becomes gpl compliant... it has no place in the linux suite of applications or programing languages, PERIOD.

If MSFT wanted to be our friends, they would submit the C# language to the GPL license.

Jerry

Given that we already have

Given that we already have an open source, platform independent programming environment in Java, what does mono provide that Java doesn't? Is it a case of being upset with Sun for keeping Java closed for so long, or are there genuine advantages to mono?

Donoreo, how can you say

Donoreo, how can you say that the functionality isn't there if you don't use or haven't even tried the aforementioned apps? F-Spot is impressive, also I have been impressed by Banshee and Beagle. These new wave of applications breathed some new life into the Gnome desktop.

Mono provides a rapid application development platform for Linux, there comes a point where people shouldn't have to go through so much pain to do on Linux what people do with ease on Windows. If application development is easier and more accesible then the more likely people will take up Linux development and hopefully the result of this is new applications that bring new ideas and innovations. I may live under a rock but I didn't see anyone doing desktop search before Beagle, now it's widespread on most modern desktops. I would say Mono has provided an option for curious Windows developers to consider open source but also made Linux development accessible by providing a set of tools to quickly prototype applications without being bogged down with 30+ years of programming history and pain.

If you like and trust

If you like and trust Microsoft and what it represents, then there shouldn't be much to prevent you from adopting the entire Mono/.Net thing.

Otherwise...



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