Linux Format forums

Re: Distro consolidation

Flea — Mon Jun 20, 2005 1:02 am

Author: Flea

Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2005 1:02 am

Most people view forking as detrimental to a FOSS project so why would anyone be against distro consolidation? Distro's are after all just a collection of software packages (ignoring support deals). Consolidation is fine provided that the option of revolt (i.e. the GPL and forking (as a last resort)) is maintained. XFree86 and X.org is a good example.

Dave.

Re: Distro consolidation

skecs — Sat Jun 18, 2005 7:47 am

Author: skecs

Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2005 7:47 am

I think it isn't an issue. I have paid for various Linux distributions, downloaded the FTP version from Suse, used free as in Debian, used paid versions that have been supplied with computer magazines and downloaded different ones from mirror servers when I get bored. When some distros stop or merge or fork others appear in their place. That is is the "great bit" about Linux - you can use which ever fits the hole you have in your computing requirements.

And I'll continue to buy boxed, supported versions when I feel like it!

Re: Distro consolidation

fingers99 — Sat Jun 18, 2005 12:01 am

Author: fingers99

Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2005 12:01 am

Quote:

But if your needs are more modest and typical, such as a standard intranet, one of the supported distros would be a good choice.

There is, I think, a niche where distro support comes good: my guess is that it's somewhere between the 15 employee business and the majorly huge. Then again, whatever the size, there are lots of indepedents out there ready to supply support -- including dear old IBM.

My guess is that Red Hat style support appeals to those who have not thought the process of unixification through very well and want something to match the M$ support model, but.....

Years on, at at a slight tangent, I remember a posting on CinCom's public mailing list (CinCom do Visual Works and have both paid and free -- community -- support models) from their top software developer:
"Why the hell is the third largest oil company in the US posting on the community list? Can't you afford support?"
To which the answer was, sure, and we have a support contract. We post here because we like the crak and because the responses are sometimes better..........

Re: Distro consolidation

nelz — Thu Jun 16, 2005 7:46 pm

Author: nelz

Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 7:46 pm

Flip answer 1) Munich is a city. not a business

Flip answer 2) That's the exception that proves the rule.

Serious bit ) I doubt a city administration could use any out of the box solution, so if you need someone to customise and support it anyway, you may as well go for a free distro. But if your needs are more modest and typical, such as a standard intranet, one of the supported distros would be a good choice.

Re: Distro consolidation

bigbee — Thu Jun 16, 2005 7:36 pm

Author: bigbee

Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 7:36 pm

Sure, Munich has made an econmical study between paid distro's + support and free distro's + external help with their migration.
But I don't think any of the money spent to external consultants will flow back to the development of free software (in the case of paid distro's their would be a chance indeed)

(but on the other hand I can understand the move of Munich, because the migration of their administrative apps will require more than out of the box support anyway )

Re: Distro consolidation

fingers99 — Thu Jun 16, 2005 6:11 pm

Author: fingers99

Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 6:11 pm

nelz wrote:

If Linux is about choice, we need paid and free distros.

Businesses need paid packages with guaranteed support, and the money they pay helps fund the free software you use.

Which explains why Munich went for Debian?

I'd agree that businesses need paid/guaranteed support, but disagree that the best or most economical way of buying it is through the distributor. Of course, the money you pay may finance free software.

Re: Distro consolidation

Nigel — Thu Jun 16, 2005 11:09 am

Author: Nigel

Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2005 11:09 am

And that's the really great thing about having multiple distros - we can both find one that suits our needs (& our budgets)

Re: Distro consolidation

M0PHP — Wed Jun 15, 2005 11:33 pm

Author: M0PHP

Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 11:33 pm

Well for a start I wouldn't buy a boxed version, simply because I'd have to pay for it. I'm not saying that's right - that's just me. I'd never read the manual, and I can use freely-available distros which are just as easy to use and sometimes better (as of what I've experienced with Mandrake 10.0 and SuSE 9.1).

The 'free' as defined by Debian (although not my favourite distro) is the type of free I prefer my distros. And on the other hand, I personally don't agree paying nearly �50 for something like Linspire (as an example) when all that + more could be had for free.

Just my 2p

Re: Distro consolidation

Nigel — Wed Jun 15, 2005 11:10 pm

Author: Nigel

Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 11:10 pm

M0PHP wrote:

What I don't like about Mandriva and SuSE is that they aren't free in the traditional sense of, say, Debian.

I've bought 3 different boxed versions of SuSE (7.2, 8.2 & 9.2). I figure it's worth it for the manuals you get with it (although they do seem to be getting slimmer these days) - I know it isn't eco-friendly, but I still find printed manuals easier to use than their electronic equivalents.

But as far as I'm aware I could get exactly the same software package over the internet by doing an ftp-based install, and it wouldn't cost me anything (I'm on an uncapped broadband connection).

And, of course, there's no limit to the number of machines I can install my purchases on, and no restriction on selling/giving away the old versions should I wish to.

I don't know if Mandriva do things differently...

Or are you referring to Debian's avoidance of non-GPL packages in their distro ?

Re: Distro consolidation

mugstar — Wed Jun 15, 2005 10:51 pm

Author: mugstar

Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 10:51 pm

I'm just wondering what the new name will be...

Re: Distro consolidation

nelz — Wed Jun 15, 2005 10:21 pm

Author: nelz

Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 10:21 pm

If Linux is about choice, we need paid and free distros.

Businesses need paid packages with guaranteed support, and the money they pay helps fund the free software you use.

Re: Distro consolidation

M0PHP — Wed Jun 15, 2005 10:01 pm

Author: M0PHP

Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 10:01 pm

What I don't like about Mandriva and SuSE is that they aren't free in the traditional sense of, say, Debian. Which to me is what linux isn't about. Yeah, businesses need professional support - but that doesn't mean they have to charge home users, make them wait months or give them limited editions.

But as Nigel points it, this issue is definately a "it depends" category. If the merge is for the good of the community of both projects then I believe it to be a good move.

RE: Distro consolidation

Nigel — Wed Jun 15, 2005 9:07 pm

Author: Nigel

Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 9:07 pm

I'm with the "It depends" camp... Linux is all about choice, and the more choice of distros the better. But on the other hand it does get confusing to newbies and it does make support more difficult.
Yes, I would rather have 10 good distros available than 20 mediocre ones, but I would rather have the 20 mediocre ones than a solitary provider, no matter how good the single distro was.

As an aside, yes we've seen some mergers & aquisitions recently, but we've also seen new distros spring up - Ubuntu & Kubuntu spring to mind immediately - I'd never heard of them a year ago. And when I first encountered Linux the choice was between Slackware, RedHat and Debian (I have a CD set with them all on that cost me $20) - all good, but the choice is way better now

RE: Distro consolidation

zarathustra — Wed Jun 15, 2005 8:39 pm

Author: zarathustra

Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 8:39 pm

I agree Nelz. I have been pondering this one for a while of late. Why do I have such a soft spot for fedora? Because it's community driven of course. I also like being able to just apt get software and not have to have recourse to distro servers or worse buy "extras discs". I conceede it is reasonable for companies to see a return on their investment in software but not to use it to the detriment of other free distros.
I think so long as there are those like myself who 'use' and 'support (albeit in a limited capacity)' free distros they will have a market, p-articularly as they like me just want to see software out there and in ready use, no fast bucks involved, *good stuff*

RE: Distro consolidation

Rhakios — Wed Jun 15, 2005 8:36 pm

Author: Rhakios

Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2005 8:36 pm

On the whole I think it's a good thing. As has been mentioned above, large companies can offer well supported distros for businesses, and so long as all the parts necessary for a Linux OS remain open source, anyone with the time, interest and ability can start a new distribution. Linux offers the best of both worlds

Oh and I like that link on the page mentioned above

"DesktopOS: Lycoris Desktop/lx 1.4 Could Replace Windows 98"

Very appropriate considering the age of some of the core parts which ship with Lycoris.