Linux Format forums

Re: Windows 32 / 64 bit

RedWillow — Sat Sep 25, 2010 4:06 pm

Author: RedWillow

Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 4:06 pm

PCNetSpec wrote:

Or you could wait for Windows 8 Starter, which might have a 0GB memory limit

That could be a real winner. The first Windows version guaranteed never to blue screen.

Re: Windows 32 / 64 bit

PCNetSpec — Sat Sep 25, 2010 4:05 pm

Author: PCNetSpec

Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 4:05 pm

I'm not sure how M$ has implemented PAE in Windows 7, but a PAE kernel was also included in Windows XP, but only for data execution prevention (DEP)... it didn't allow you to access more than 4GB of memory.

http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/system/platform/server/PAE/PAEdrv.mspx

Re: Windows 32 / 64 bit

wyliecoyoteuk — Sat Sep 25, 2010 3:43 pm

Author: wyliecoyoteuk

Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 3:43 pm

Actually, you can use windows 7 32 bit with more than 4 GB
There is a PAE mode.

Re: Windows 32 / 64 bit

PCNetSpec — Sat Sep 25, 2010 10:49 am

Author: PCNetSpec

Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 10:49 am

RedWillow wrote:

The motherboard manual also has this priceless comment: "You must install at least one module in any of the two slots."

Or you could wait for Windows 8 Starter, which might have a 0GB memory limit

Re: Windows 32 / 64 bit

RedWillow — Sat Sep 25, 2010 10:36 am

Author: RedWillow

Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 10:36 am

PCNetSpec wrote:

but make the jump to say 8GB, and a PAE enabled system is definitely going to perform better.

All a bit hypothetical for me. The motherboard on my main machine is a micro-ATX and has only 2 DDR2 slots in each of which I have Crucial 2GB cards = 4GB. My motherboard manual says, "Each module can be installed with 8GB of memory; total memory capacity is 16GB." Which is all very well but, last time I looked, Crucial don't do sticks any greater than 2GB - at least compatible with this board. I had a hunt around other makes and I found some 4GB sticks, but the price...

So I run 64-bit Ubuntu in 4GB and I haven't run out of memory yet.

The motherboard manual also has this priceless comment: "You must install at least one module in any of the two slots." Really? Damn, I thought I could save some money there by not having any RAM at all.

Re: Windows 32 / 64 bit

PCNetSpec — Sat Sep 25, 2010 10:00 am

Author: PCNetSpec

Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 10:00 am

I remeber reading a Redhat white paper (heh.. ) that put the performance penalty between 0 - 10% (depending on the task) between 32bit PAE and 64bit.

But I wonder how much of an improvement the extra RAM would give you over 3.2GB (ish) on a 32bit system?

So I guess 32bit PAE might still have a performance benefit over non-PAE at 4GB, at certain tasks... but make the jump to say 8GB, and a PAE enabled system is definitely going to perform better.

I think they mean - a performance hit over 64bit if you see what I mean, so I guess PAE has its place... can't say I've ever used it though.

Couldn't agree more about the M$ starter memory con

Re: Windows 32 / 64 bit

RedWillow — Sat Sep 25, 2010 8:23 am

Author: RedWillow

Posted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 8:23 am

PCNetSpec wrote:

So it wouldn't it be correct to say 32bit carries a 4GB address limit

Fair point, but I believe it's important to be aware of the practical limit of ~3GB. I've often seen threads on Ubuntuforums where the OP asks what's wrong when their 32-bit version of Ubuntu can only see about 3GB of the 4GB they've installed. From their wording it's clear they feel cheated. They usually get told to install the PAE kernel which I believe slows the system down. Personally, I'd prefer to be missing a quarter of my RAM than put up with the performance hit.

Extraordinary how MS cut memory access down on their "starter" editions. They never cease to amaze me. I suppose that deep within marketing some bright spark worked out that they would make even more ill-gained profit by doing this.

Re: Windows 32 / 64 bit

PCNetSpec — Fri Sep 24, 2010 11:17 pm

Author: PCNetSpec

Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 11:17 pm

Agreed, only about 3.2GB (ish) will be available for use, but 4GB is being addressed.

So it wouldn't it be correct to say 32bit carries a 4GB address limit (without PAE)?... the amount that will be available for use depends on variables, so is effectively un-quotable.

Re: Windows 32 / 64 bit

RedWillow — Fri Sep 24, 2010 11:03 pm

Author: RedWillow

Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 11:03 pm

PCNetSpec wrote:

4GB not 3GB

Actually, nearer 3 than 4. Although a 32-bit system can theoretically address 4GB (putting aside deliberate MS-induced crippling of their own OSs), in practice it can use little more than 3GB. Headache-inducing explanation here:

http://www.dansdata.com/askdan00015.htm

Even a 32-bit Linux system is similarly limited - unless you use a PAE kernel. When I installed a 32-bit version of Ubuntu to a 64-bit CPU machine with 4GB, the gnome system monitor reported that I had 3.2GB memory. And the video card was using a helluva lot less than the 0.8.

Re: Windows 32 / 64 bit

PCNetSpec — Fri Sep 24, 2010 10:19 pm

Author: PCNetSpec

Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 10:19 pm

It's was still intentionally *crippled* by M$

But I get your point, 1GB in Vista was probably a much bigger offence

To tell the truth, I don't remember seeing XP Starter installed on anything, I have come across Vista Starter though

Re: Windows 32 / 64 bit

heiowge — Fri Sep 24, 2010 9:39 pm

Author: heiowge

Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 9:39 pm

But that was released at a time where most people had 128 - 256 MB RAM. Hardly anyone had more. Those who could afford more could afford more than the basic level XP.

These days you need a mortgage to buy windows.

Re: Windows 32 / 64 bit

PCNetSpec — Fri Sep 24, 2010 9:17 pm

Author: PCNetSpec

Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 9:17 pm

Windows XP Starter Edition - 512MB

Re: Windows 32 / 64 bit

heiowge — Fri Sep 24, 2010 9:13 pm

Author: heiowge

Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 9:13 pm

Windows Vista Starter 1GB RAM max

Re: Windows 32 / 64 bit

PCNetSpec — Fri Sep 24, 2010 9:07 pm

Author: PCNetSpec

Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 9:07 pm

4GB not 3GB.... there is a table showing different Windows versions maximum addressable physical memory here:

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa366778.aspx
and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_Address_Extension#Linux

Re: Windows 32 / 64 bit

Dutch_Master — Fri Sep 24, 2010 8:39 pm

Author: Dutch_Master

Posted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 8:39 pm

3 gigabit? That ain't much indeed (note: there's a distinct difference in lower and upper case in Linux, as well as the ISO system )