Windows 8

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Re: Howtos

Postby wyliecoyoteuk » Fri Jun 01, 2012 11:43 am

Nuke wrote:
wyliecoyoteuk wrote:I've noticed a few fanboys trying to defend W8 on other forums, some to extent of writing howtos ....
a) If a modern OS needs a howto for what should be simple operations, it is rubbish.
b) No number of howtos is going to address the fairly obvious design flaws.

Like these you mean? :-

http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/Linux/docs/HOWTO/


No, those are largely not obvious or simple operations howtos.
I mean howtos like:
howto open the login screen
howto launch a program from the desktop
howto find the control panel
howto find the start button
howto get back to the desktop after pressing the start button
etc.
Last edited by wyliecoyoteuk on Fri Jun 01, 2012 5:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Forking Windows

Postby wyliecoyoteuk » Fri Jun 01, 2012 11:53 am

Nuke wrote:
There need to be forks of both Windows and Linux, but not on business/home lines.

The fork needs to be between large screen and small screen (desktop/handheld if you like). MS and Ubuntu need to stop trying to ram handheld interfaces down large screen users' throats. I see no problem in having two different types of interfaces on basically the same OS, but the fork needs to be on the right lines.


Actually, I quite like the Unity desktop, because it does work in both modes reasonably well, and after all, you still have a wide choice as to which desktop interface you use.
Unity may be the default, but it is a small matter to choose a different one, KDE, Gnome, XFCE, etc ,etc.
The problem with W8 is that it is intending to force the metro interface onto the large desktop screen, when it is pretty obviously intended for phone and tablet use alone.
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Re: Forking Windows

Postby guy » Fri Jun 01, 2012 9:22 pm

Nuke wrote:
AndyBaxman wrote:Are MS trying to commit suicide? .... they seem determined to re-fork Windows into "business" and "consumer" editions with different interfaces.


There need to be forks of both Windows and Linux, but not on business/home lines.

The fork needs to be between large screen and small screen (desktop/handheld if you like).


The same is already happening in web service space. Most web apps now check whether the client is fixed or mobile before serving their UI. The better ones even let you override it if, say, you are on a 10" tablet and want to edit Wikipedia (It defaults to the mobile UI which is read-only). Some drive me mad because they allow me to switch from one to the other, but not always back the other way (Google, have you checked all your templates recently?).

In protocol land WAP tried to do the same, but the planet is voting with its feet for HTTP(S) throughout.

So I don't think forking is the right approach - rather, the UI has to change mode instantly and seamlessly on demand - for example if you plug your smartphone's HDMI output into your 42" HDTV, or stop tweeting long enough to back up your business accounts.
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Postby wyliecoyoteuk » Fri Jun 01, 2012 10:05 pm

Sometimes you need to delete the cookie to reset the available skins.
(Zoneminder for example changes the skin by setting a cookie, which needs to be deleted for you to get the choice again)
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Postby Paradigm Shifter » Fri Jun 01, 2012 10:06 pm

So far my experiences of Windows 8 (Consumer Preview in both VM and actual install) and Release Preview (just in a VM) have not been positive. I do need to play with the RP more, but so far I'm anything but impressed.

I even liked the Windows Vista betas/RC/release more than what I've seen of Win 8; and beta-testing Vista was like trying to gnaw my own leg off.

It's just so hard to do stuff with Metro; it enjoys thrusting things I'll never want to use down my neck, while obfuscating many of the things I want to make easy. I find it particularly annoying that with no touchscreen, half the prompts are things like "Tap on the box to control how Windows handles blah-blah-blah." I could do that - but it wouldn't get me anything other than fingermarks on my LCD. Forcryin'outloud...
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Re: Forking Windows

Postby AndyBaxman » Sat Jun 02, 2012 8:59 am

guy wrote:So I don't think forking is the right approach - rather, the UI has to change mode instantly and seamlessly on demand - for example if you plug your smartphone's HDMI output into your 42" HDTV, or stop tweeting long enough to back up your business accounts.


Sounds like Ubuntu for Android.
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Postby lok1950 » Wed Jun 20, 2012 12:38 am

Looks like M$ is trying to get the enterprise tablet market :shock: they just announced "Surface" their new tablet and probably the reference hardware for Win8 as that is what it is said to run BTW they showed a detachable keyboard no word is it will be bundled as standard with each or as an add-on.

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Postby AndyBaxman » Wed Jun 20, 2012 9:32 am

lok1950 wrote:Looks like M$ is trying to get the enterprise tablet market :shock: they just announced "Surface" their new tablet and probably the reference hardware for Win8 as that is what it is said to run BTW they showed a detachable keyboard no word is it will be bundled as standard with each or as an add-on.

Enjoy the Choice :)


Microsoft were extremely big in the enterprise PDT (Persoanl Data Terminal) market until they decided to chuck the Windows Mobile baby out with the Windows Phone bathwater.

Just about every one of those scanner bricks carried by shelf stackers and delivery drivers were running Windows Mobile or CE.

Microsoft's stupid decision to make Windows Phone 100% incompatible with Windows Mobile has killed this off. Windows Mobile is now seen as "legacy" and nobody wants it and, given the incompatibility, there is no "upgrade" path to "Phone" either.

So now, having spent the last 8 years coding for Windows Mobile, we are now being asked to port those "enterprise" apps to, wait for it, iOS.

Yes, iOS (and, to a lesser extent, Android).

So, unless MS get their corporate fingers out of their collective asses and get this tablet on the market something like yesterday they are going to find that nobody wants their tablet, irrespective of how good it is, because all of those enterprise mobile apps will be running on Androd and/or iOS, and its a damn sight easier (aka cheaper) to port from Android or iOS phone to Android or iOS tablet than it is to go from anything to Windows 8 Metro.
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Postby Ram » Wed Jun 20, 2012 9:36 am

A case of Gun Foot Hole.

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Postby AndyBaxman » Wed Jun 20, 2012 9:47 am

Ram wrote:A case of Gun Foot Hole.


Oh yes.

If there had been a sensible upgrade path to Windows Phone most of the people we write for would have gone for it but, because it was no more costly to port to iOS or Android, they went for that option because:-

Android and iOS are perceived as mature.
There are Android "enterprise" class devices (ruggedised, waterproof), but not Windows Phone.
The people who make decisions view Apple as the epitome of quality and reliability.

Microsoft didn't shoot themselves in the foot regarding Enterprise devices. They blew it clean off with an RPG.
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Postby lok1950 » Wed Jun 20, 2012 6:34 pm

Then can we anticipated Baulmer being seen with pointing a shotgun at his head :wink:

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Postby AndyBaxman » Thu Jun 21, 2012 8:32 am

They've done it again

Not only is there no path to upgrade a Windows Phone 7 phone to Phone 8, but Phone 8 is 100% incompatible with Phone 7, so Phone 7 users will, like Windows Mobile users, be left to die on the vine.

Bet Nokia are happy. Would you sign up to a 2 year, £30 pcm, contract on a Lumia now, knowing that your phone is already a legacy device?
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Postby Paradigm Shifter » Thu Jun 21, 2012 10:52 am

I'm no Microsoft apologist and am less than thrilled with the news myself, but the target hardware is completely different, so I'm not surprised that there is no upgrade path from WP7 to WP8. WP8 is targeted at much higher-end phones; if you allowed the installation of WP8 on WP7 hardware, you'd probably end up with an internet firestorm about how WP8 runs appallingly. Then no one would touch it because they'd all have heard/read that "WP8 runs badly" when in reality on decent hardware it ran very well.

In the end, I fear, it's a case of "Damned if they do, damned in they don't".

What they do with WP7 will be the teller - does support die after update 7.8?

Honestly, I quite like the Lumia now... and would be happy to have one. But then, if Nokia resurrected the 3210 with larger memory (for more than ten text messages) and with all the power savings and increased battery life the newer silicon processes would bring... I'd be first in the queue to get one. :D
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Postby AndyBaxman » Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:02 pm

Paradigm Shifter wrote: WP8 is targeted at a much higher-end phones;


Oh, really?

Nokia Lumia 900 (Windows Phone 7.5): £468
Samsung Galaxy S3 (Android 4.0): £500
HTC 1X (Android 4.0): £458
Apple iPhone 4s: £557

(prices from Clove)

The price of the Lumia 900 looks pretty high-end to me, particularly when compared to the cheaper (but much higher specced HTC 1X).
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Postby Paradigm Shifter » Sun Jun 24, 2012 5:43 pm

Particularly with Nokia, price seems to have little to do with whether something is 'high end' or not. It's one of the reasons why Nokia has lost so much ground in the phone market - they haven't evolved their tech and their prices to compete. In terms of some specifications, the Lumia phones aren't competitive with the high-end Android phones - aren't all WP7 phones single-core CPU, as that is a requirement of WP7?

If WP8 is designed around dual-core or more CPUs, it's probably threaded in such a way that it won't run too well on a single-core.
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