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State of the world Today
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crispibits
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Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2005 1:33 pm
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Location: Bath

PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 12:17 pm    Post subject: RE: Re: RE: State of the world Today Reply with quote

I know what you mean about ID'ing people - I used to work in an Offie in Salisbury, and always hated having to ask for ID. Not because I wanted underage drinkers/smokers, but more worried about abuse. The threat of a personal penalty of a few hundred quid fine was a good enough reason to ask people though!

As far as H.I.M is concerned, hope you enjoy it - from what I can remember, it's good solid goth rock isn't it?
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shifty_ben
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 12:31 pm    Post subject: RE: Re: RE: State of the world Today Reply with quote

Quote:
As far as H.I.M is concerned, hope you enjoy it - from what I can remember, it's good solid goth rock isn't it?


Yup usually, although they do tend to drift into other genres a bit as well. Its going to be a great gig, I first heard them when I was in High School, and I've only just got around to buying tickets.

Quote:
Not because I wanted underage drinkers/smokers, but more worried about abuse.


There have been talks of changing the way the law works on this, someone has recognised (about time to) that the intent is on one side of the counter. We don't say I want to sell to an underage kid today, the underage kids says Im going to try and buy Vodka today. So they are talking about changing the law so the kids can be fined. Hard to enforce though, and its sadly going to get us more abuse I think.

The thing that p*sses me off is that the media (especially), Trading Standards, The Police are all intent on pointing fingers at the Wine and spirits industry, Pubs point their fingers at the offlicenses so we get all the flak for this countries 'mass drinking problems'. Incidentally I have seen the figures, the problem is not as bad as the media makes out.
So we deal with all that, live in fear of test purchasers (two of our stores have failed - the kid lied about his age in one (Trading Standards are not allowed to do that) and in the other the kid was about 6ft 6.) and deal with some severely annoyed kids. My job pays enough to justify having to deal with arsey kids, but to be threatened with knives? no way. The government are only making things worse for us as well, by making penalties stronger, talking about raising the smoking age (which aside from the hassle it will cause me, aint a bad idea) and various other initiatives that the media are either ignoring or have not got hold of.

If this country wants to try and stamp out Alcohol related crime, they should recognise 2 things. 1) Most people who commit serious alcohol related crimes probably didn't need the alcohol to do so anyway. 2) Focusing on the Wine and Spirits industry is not going to stop people from turning to alcoholism. In fact its interesting to note that since the governments stamp down, many of the sectors with the sector (i.e. RTDs, Spirits etc) have had a huge jump in sales.
It may not be related to their crackdown, but there has been a lot of coverage, so based on their premise that Offlicenses are the source of all these drink related problems they have actually made the matter worse.


Sorry that went very OT, its just one of those things that really bugs me. Its not intended as a political post and I certainly don't want to start a flamewar Wink
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nordle
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Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2005 10:56 pm
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 9:36 pm    Post subject: Re: RE: Re: RE: State of the world Today Reply with quote

shifty_ben wrote:
There are certainly more drugs in the area


ehhh, Ben, you do work in an off license with one of the most damaging drugs known to man. The reason we feel that way the next morning is because we are poisoning ourselves, its toxic and reasonbly easy to OD on.
Now before people go mental, I have no problem with the odd drink now and again, or was that again right now Smile It's just odd the perception that all banned substances are bad and the legal ones, well, bless em, they're just have one too many. Although I guess with the volume of alcohol related media, news, documentaries, papers etc people are starting to get fed up not being able to sleep if they live near a booza, or not venturing into areas of town etc
But again, I agree that the media has made the most of it, we are still talking a small percentage of poeple who go OTT and end the evening stamping on someones face because they tried to nick their taxi.

Nelz wrote:

I'm sure nordle will second that suggestion


shifty_ben wrote:

Wonder if rather than causing traffic jams on my bike, Nordle will give me a lift home Wink

Sure no problem, Im not sure if my heap would make it more than 50miles in one go though Embarassed

OK, if it means Ben not getting stabbed, then I suppose one extra cyclist is ok...... anyway, he won't be on any of the roads I use Very Happy
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shifty_ben
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Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2005 10:56 am
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 10:42 pm    Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: State of the world Today Reply with quote

Quote:
ehhh, Ben, you do work in an off license with one of the most damaging drugs known to man. The reason we feel that way the next morning is because we are poisoning ourselves, its toxic and reasonbly easy to OD on.
Now before people go mental, I have no problem with the odd drink now and again, or was that again right now Smile It's just odd the perception that all banned substances are bad


At the risk of making a very political statement, I agree 100% with you. In fact I have believed for a long time that if Cannabis were legal and alcohol illegal then the country would not have half the problems the media claims. Speak to anyone who has smoked it, you don't feel like fighting.

Got a lift home tonight, as I'm buggered if I am going to risk getting stabbed/arrested the night before a gig I have waited 6 months for!
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nordle
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Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2005 10:56 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 1:53 am    Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: State of the world Today Reply with quote

You may find this interesting, another example of politics over sense:
http://www.digg.com/science/Medical_Marijuana_-_Politics_Trumps_Science

One of my friends had bowel cancer at the age of 18, he was advised to not touch a drop of booze during chemo, but to smoke weed to alleviate the side effects. Apparently its pretty standard for chemo patients, and really helped him through it.

There's got to be a common sense balance between politics and people with regard to the medical use.
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pins
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Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2005 8:24 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 7:04 am    Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: State of the world Today Reply with quote

Besides the social effects of cannabis/alcohol or any other substance theres the simple argument of taxation and quality control: legalisation of substances would mean that the government could levy taxes on their import and sale, and make sure that what people think they're buying is what they're buying. If people are going to be addicted to smack, we can at least try and help them avoid shooting up with ajax or whatever it is dealers mix it with to bulk up the volume. That said, if you read Naked Lunch by William Burroughs, (who was a junkie for decades) at the end he talks about the 'global drug epidemic' and points out that in the fifties in britain there was a register for junkies, who went to their gp to get the prescription. because it was never mixed with anything and the amount was always seet, there was very little problem with addictions getting worse. The level of addicts in the country remained about stable - new cases were mainly due to people who had had morphine as a pain killer. Then they scrapped that and classified it, and people had to start to buy it illicitly, and things got out of hand.
As was proved in prohibition era U.S. trying to stop people from getting drunk/stoned/whatever is only going to push it underground and put money into the hands of organised crime.
</rant>

Hello, good morning everyone. Beautiful day to be using linux today, aint it?
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crispibits
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Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2005 1:33 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 10:00 am    Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: State of the world Today Reply with quote

It's a tricky balance between legitimising something to control it, and banning it because it can do you harm. Neither alcohol nor cannabis can really be said to be 'good' for you - they are both toxins. They are not supposed to be in your body. I must say it may feel nice when they are, but that's not the point. I agree that when you've had a couple of smokes you don't feel like fighting, but you don't feel like doing much really, apart from eating, and listening to Floyd or Ozrics. On the other hand, I don't particularly feel like fighting after my G&T each evening listening to Smooth Classics at 7. When all's said and done, does it really matter if it's illegal or not? Get on with what you like doing, as long as you aren't being a danger to yourself or others.
Anyway, yes - it's a lovely day to be using Linux, and I had a nice cycle ride along the canal path into work this morning watching the ducklings and a couple of Herons. Bliss, and all chemical free... Smile
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jjmac
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 11:35 am    Post subject: RE: Re: RE: State of the world Today Reply with quote

Shifty,

Yes, likewise ... glad to hear your OK !. It takes the breath away a bit dosen't it ... i haven't read all the above as yet but noticed you mentioned cctv tape(s). I was going to suggest that.

Visual evidence !

Cameras inside and out, but descretely placed. Folks hate it when they think there being spied on, but it seems the only on going solution thats really available. Pre-coded phone links (panic buttons), by then it's all inside and 30 seconds is a long time. Hopefully it's just a short cycle passing over.


jm
Humpty Dumpty Was Pushed !
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shifty_ben
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 9:31 pm    Post subject: RE: Re: RE: State of the world Today Reply with quote

Quote:
Pre-coded phone links (panic buttons), by then it's all inside and 30 seconds is a long time.


We have security shutters so it adds another 2 minutes on. Slowly pulling things together, Ive been putting word round so anyone who gets any issues is going to report the buggers Very Happy
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wyliecoyoteuk
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Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2005 11:41 pm
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 11:34 pm    Post subject: RE: Re: RE: State of the world Today Reply with quote

Funny thing about the age ID trip.
My daughter is was 30 in january, and she still occasionally gets asked for ID in pubs and shops if purchasing Alcohol.
She finds it very amusing, (flattering, I suppose, as she usually wears no makeup, is sllim and fit, and can be mistaken for an under 1Cool.
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nordle
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 12:57 am    Post subject: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: State of the world Today Reply with quote

pins wrote:
Besides the social effects of cannabis/alcohol or any other substance theres the simple argument of taxation and quality control: legalisation of substances would mean that the government could levy taxes on their import and sale, and make sure that what people think they're buying is what they're buying. If people are going to be addicted to smack, we can at least try and help them avoid shooting up with ajax or whatever it is dealers mix it with to bulk up the volume. That said, if you read Naked Lunch by William Burroughs, (who was a junkie for decades) at the end he talks about the 'global drug epidemic' and points out that in the fifties in britain there was a register for junkies, who went to their gp to get the prescription. because it was never mixed with anything and the amount was always seet, there was very little problem with addictions getting worse. The level of addicts in the country remained about stable - new cases were mainly due to people who had had morphine as a pain killer. Then they scrapped that and classified it, and people had to start to buy it illicitly, and things got out of hand.
As was proved in prohibition era U.S. trying to stop people from getting drunk/stoned/whatever is only going to push it underground and put money into the hands of organised crime.
</rant>

Hello, good morning everyone. Beautiful day to be using linux today, aint it?


No, firefox crashed on me today, which is the first time its ever done that!
When using win + ie, you get used to it, but here I was left mouth open staring at a gtk1 style looking mozilla agent thingy with all my fox windows vanished.

But on the whole yeah its great, people don't really get my ranting at my PC during work. When Excel crashes because I opened an attachement from an email, word tells me an error log has been created but doesn't tell me where. When I try and use OOo functionality in Excel and swear when I spend ages highlighting columns to delete. They are like, "why are you moaning, thats how it works", and im like "there is another way, which doesn't involve quite so many murderous intentions".

Not to go on too much on an OT on the OT, but I agree with all that you said, prohibition putting money and control in the hands of unregulated criminals is rediculous. At 16 people don't really consider that there would be henna, plastic and litterally soil as well as diesel and other highly carconegenic substances sold, but it is because its cheap, bumps the weight and there's not exactly ISO standards and Health & Safety doing quality checks.

crispibits wrote:

It's a tricky balance between legitimising something to control it, and banning it because it can do you harm. Neither alcohol nor cannabis can really be said to be 'good' for you - they are both toxins.

In the many people I know I can see far more damage through the former. Certainly too much drink wipes out the whole next day, cant eat, cant think, feal sick to move, depressed feeling, totally rough. The later just doesn't come close, too much and you sleep deeper, the body just doesn't feel anywhere near the level of destruction its taken from the former. Too much booze and you see the levels of violence and dissorder, because the frontal lobe section which develops since the age of 3 more and more to self control is quickly turned off by alcohol, so after 8 pints peoples rational is that of a toddler.
Again, moderation is the key of course.

crispibits wrote:

They are not supposed to be in your body. I must say it may feel nice when they are, but that's not the point.

Some of my best freinds have been made through many a intoxicated evening, some even married each other years later. Those memories I will certainly treasure, I can't help but laugh again now Smile

crispibits wrote:

I agree that when you've had a couple of smokes you don't feel like fighting, but you don't feel like doing much really, apart from eating, and listening to Floyd or Ozrics.

It depends, I'd say people avoid things they are not interested in and go 150% on things they are. I see people get really passionate about things and actaully get results because of it.
The music is varied too, anything from Massive Attack / Morcheeba, Cypress Hill, The Roots, Fun Lovin Criminals, Stereo MC's, India Arie, Angie Stone, Silicone Soul, Basement Jaxx, Faithless, The Prodigy, High Society, Andy C, Stone Roses, Snow Patrol, Death in Vegas, Dodgy, William Orbit, The Searchers, Donovan, The Kinks, Small Faces, Tremeloes, Queen, Bach, Chopin....

crispibits wrote:

On the other hand, I don't particularly feel like fighting after my G&T each evening listening to Smooth Classics at 7.

Sounds lovely Smile Appreciation for what it is and how it combines.

crispibits wrote:

When all's said and done, does it really matter if it's illegal or not? Get on with what you like doing, as long as you aren't being a danger to yourself or others.

Exactly, totally agree. Now picture this, aged 20 working in IT as a Database Applications Developer earning a decent wage paying a decent amount of tax and generally a decent human and member of the community. He's walking down the street having been to a freinds after work, still got the whistle and fluit on not drawing attention. Stopped and searched, busted becuase you've just bought a cheeky bottle of heineken round your mates. It was just 1 beer, for personnel consumption, but tough, its illegal. Down the station for 2 hours, finger prints taken for nationaly database and now a criminal record. Getting future jobs suddenly becomes MUCH more difficult, where before would be a flood of interviews is now a silent phone and letter box. Insurance quotes rise, the system which at one point treated you as an asset suddenly becomes a "them and us" situation as you may decide to resort to lying about the record, hey presto new job oppertunities open up right away but you've had to compromise your own standards to achieve it, which weighs heavily on your conscience.
And all because you enjoyed a nice quality beer now and again.

Does it really matter that its illegal, unfortunately yes it does, not just on principle that a person should live their life to their choosing and not be punished for it as long as it doesn't harm others, not just the principle side, but also the very real world effect that being caught with that bottle of heineken does.

crispibits wrote:

Anyway, yes - it's a lovely day to be using Linux, and I had a nice cycle ride along the canal path into work this morning watching the ducklings and a couple of Herons. Bliss, and all chemical free... Smile

Well you can't have everything can you Smile
Just joking, sounds really nice, the kind of morning that makes a person thankfull for being alive, luv those mornings, grinning from ear to ear!
Until being hit, I used to ride a motorbike and luved to do just that, not to get from point A to B, but to be in between, the road, sun, warm wind breezing by, heaven Smile
(right up until a wasp gets blown down your neck onto your chest behind the leather jacket, very amusing for other motorists to see but not something I would recommend!


I shall step down from the soap box, on this subject at least, don't want to scare the lxf legal dept any more than already have done Smile
Well you did put in an OT forum guys Wink
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crispibits
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Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2005 1:33 pm
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Location: Bath

PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 8:55 am    Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: State of the world Today Reply with quote

nordle wrote:
(right up until a wasp gets blown down your neck onto your chest behind the leather jacket, very amusing for other motorists to see but not something I would recommend!

Ooh nasty, I did much the same thing - Chopped Honda CB550, matt black sunny day, leather open, bee down the sleeve. Stung, jumped off bike and threw leather and helmet on the floor - very amusing for everyone else... Smile Went to the first house I came to and asked for a pair of tweezers - lady who answered the door was a bee keeper, sorted!

I gave up biking after reaching Ducati stage from a honda FS1E, and realised Ductais were actually cr*p...


nordle wrote:
It depends, I'd say people avoid things they are not interested in and go 150% on things they are. I see people get really passionate about things and actaully get results because of it.

True, but most of the time I see people get really passionate about things they're interested in and either bore the pants off everyone else, or in the case of music, play the same three chords over and over and over and over again. Believe me, I've tried recording myself... Smile
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jjmac
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 11:57 am    Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: State of the world Today Reply with quote

>>
play the same three chords over and over and over and over again.
>>


It's called a riff Very Happy


jm

Humpty Dumpty Was Pushed !
Problem: Not Enough Crme ??
Solution: Extend Prohibition !!
.
.
.
Art For Arts Sake ,, umm,, hmm ...
Damn Memories Gone Again Smile
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Nigel
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 12:24 pm    Post subject: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: State of the world Today Reply with quote

crispibits wrote:
play the same three chords over and over and over and over again...


Status Quo have made a very nice living for the past 30+ years doing just that Very Happy
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crispibits
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Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2005 1:33 pm
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Location: Bath

PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 2:25 pm    Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: State of the world Today Reply with quote

We actually had a song that went
'I only know three chords but I'm having a good time, having a good time, having a good time"
repeat till fade...

jjmac wrote:
It's called a riff

It's only called a riff when broken up with things like intros, bridges and choruses... Wink
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