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Smart Boot Manager - BOOM not working
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zarathustra



Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2005 5:14 pm
Posts: 83

PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2005 10:19 pm    Post subject: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Smart Boot Manager - BOOM not working Reply with quote

Anonymous wrote:
people keep saying comments like " there 'is' a problem, namely you ain't supposed to be installing anything on your school PC's!" don't think i know - that is what i mean."

As I made the comment I shall reply, I stand by my remark the problem is trying to install on a PC you ain't rightly supposed to be doing so. You however failed to mention that it was a live disc, in which case I see no real harm as long as you pick a distro which even though live writes nothing to hard drive as some do.



"Blatently about being snoty, or what ever that means, is only in the way provoked by the way i have seen, that i don't have clue about computers - it isn't the way you've directly said, even though you haven't but other people have, but by the content it gives me an impression of so.


Hmmm, no one has said anything of the sort, I am sad to say it is more of a Freudian slip on your part, viz you are revealing how you feel on this matter and what you think your problem looks like to others. The whole point of the help forum is to ask and be asked, there is something by which we all get perplexed.

regards Zara...
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zarathustra



Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2005 5:14 pm
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2005 10:41 pm    Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: Smart Boot Manager - BOOM not working Reply with quote

Quote:

starting with the nelz, this is becoming an argument, which i can see - i apologize for not giving detail, however i didn't think about mentioning that extra detail, people forget. Aswell to the second paragraph, i would be wondering if the drive was still being checked, would it ask for a boot disc? I am trying not to argue, but it seems a bit odd for it to create a black screen and not go onto windows? Anyway i'll see what happens with a windows boot disc, if it works there is an answer...


As I noted in my last reply, you are making Freudian slips, no one is arguing here, Nelz is quite simply trying to obtain info from 'you' in order to provide the help you came to the forum looking for.

Quote:

is there a right to be dictated by the school to what os we are using,


Of course there is, it's their computers. I must say I think it's poor form on their part, but I can find that in most of life, other people make decisions you have to abide by, it's called co-operation and education.

Quote:

but still it cannot be illegal.


In short it probably is, granted 'you' may not find a moral ground upon which to state it is illegal, but again law's are not often accepted by those who may break them, this can be viewed as a sign of a progressive, come creative spirit but at the end of the day they are to be acknowledged.

Quote:

I can understand in a buisness - they own their own computers, i wouln'd want my computer being messed off, but at school is different.


How so? The school own the computers just as though they were a business or a home PC. You say you wouldn't like someone messing with your PC so why is it okay to mess with anothers? I know from experience at Uni, anyone caught installing software on the network lost their right to use the network for a fixed period, if their actions risked compromising the network they were barred longterm. I grant that a network which is to serve thousands *literally* needs protection, but at the same time they have tech support to deal with matters as they arise, however not all schools can afford staff proportional to their total number of machines often the people responsible are doing it simply because they know "a bit about PC's". Accordingly I think the contrary to you it is more important that those with low support budgets are able to retain confidence in their network.

Quote:

Anyway i cannot say more until i get any chance to get on the computers, as it has been a week really - so i'll give it another go, i'll try two copies and if it doesn't work i'll gather as much information to help you with.


Please do, Oh and please remember, Nelz is probably one of the more adept forum users, he is clear, concise and very knowledgeable, though it's worrying how much he knows about some of the farthest flung areas of linux!

Take care whomever you are

P.S. If you are going to be a regular might be advisable to register, just helps users keep track of where one another are regarding linux if we can each build an albeit limited but none the less important history of each others linux woes. Smile




Why don't you try to educate your school on trying the alternative OS you so passionately want to use? I did just that last year I gave a range of Athlon XP boxes running various flavours of linux for my daughters school to road test linux on the desktop I also gave them a dual MP server to work with. The results were mixed, but a lot of pupils were given a glimpse of the Penguin so hopefully there will at least be a few more dual boots on their home machines *fingers crossed*. When the machines were returned after a year I then used them to set up a small network of what are fast machines for a local charity. I think the point I want to make here is that you have to meet people on a common ground, look into how you can educate and inform others. For some it's choice, others price.
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Nigel
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Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2005 9:03 pm
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Location: Gloucestershire, UK

PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2005 9:23 am    Post subject: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Smart Boot Manager - BOOM not working Reply with quote

Anonymous wrote:

anyway found a copy of the "act" you said...

1(1) A person is guilty of an offence if
b) the access he intends to secure is unauthorised

This is the very part that covers what you are doing. You are attempting to gain access to a computer in a manner not authorised by the owner of that computer.

Anonymous wrote:

I can understand in a buisness - they own their own computers, i wouln'd want my computer being messed off, but at school is different.

Speaking as a school governor, UK schools are increasingly being treated like businesses by those that fund us (ie the government). No, I don't like it either - I didn't volunteer my free time to write business plans for "extended schools", but that's the way things are going.
Responsibility for the computers will be delegated to the sysadmin/ICT coordinator by the Governors and Senior Management Team. Policy on who can use them and how may be set by sysadmins, ICT coordinator, Department Head, Head Teacher orGovernors - it varies from school to school. But whoever sets the policy, you have to abide by it.

Anonymous wrote:

Hope this pointless argument can end and you can help out soon......

Leaving aside the moral/legal arguments for the moment, it occurred to me that the problem you are seeing may be down to the combination of floppy disk & diskette drive. I have encountered several computers that would quite happily read floppies written in their own drives but baulked at disks written/formatted on some other machines. Try creating the boot floppy under Windows on the machine you are trying to boot it on (assuming you can get the image + rawrite or rawrite_win on a CD that you can read under Windows on that machine...)

BUT : Do yourself a favour, and ask permission from your sysadmin first Exclamation
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Hope this helps,

Nigel.
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skecs



Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2005 10:22 am
Posts: 76
Location: Bathurst, NSW Australia

PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2005 12:15 pm    Post subject: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Smart Boot Manager - BOOM not working Reply with quote

Speaking as a Computer Support Officer (and IT teacher) at an adult education college that also has "teenage boys" using the network I administer I can assure you that your system administrators have "locked down" the boot process. This is to prevent you using illegal software or performing illegal acts. If you install pirated software you won't be the person responsible - the system administrator is, and he/she doesn't want to pay the large fines or spend time in gaol that can be applied. You have found the relevant UK Act - look at the penalties that can be applied.

Look at the situation this way. If it was open slather and your assessments were deleted by an unknown person and you failed a subject or course, would you be happy? If you want to experiment with Linux do it at home, or ask for a computer that can be put aside in a lab so students can "play" with alternate operating systems and applications. You might be pleasantly surprised what manners and asking politely can achieve Surprised .

The reason the LEDs flash when first booting is called POST - Power On Self Test - and the BIOS is checking that all the hardware matches the hardware that was connected when the computer was shutdown. After this has happened the Bios passes control over to the Boot Manager on the active partition which then starts the appropriate Operating System.

More information on POST at PC Guide POST and on the associated "beep codes" at Beep Codes.

Nigel wrote:
the problem you are seeing may be down to the combination of floppy disk & diskette drive. I have encountered several computers that would quite happily read floppies written in their own drives but baulked at disks written/formatted on some other machines.


Nigel, I have seen a lot of problems with floppy disks and Windows XP over the past 18 months, especially with Compaq computers Evil or Very Mad , and it has got worse with the release of Service Pack 2. You can write to a brand new floppy disk on one system and walk to an identical system 2 metres away and the system wants to format the floppy disk. Put it back in the original system and the floppy disk is OK. We are specifically trying to get students, teachers and staff to not use floppy disks (this is easy in the Apple PowerMac classrooms - no floppy disks for three years) but look at USB Flash Drives or USB/Firewire External HDD using 2.5" notebook HDD that don't require a power supply on Apple PowerMacs (Firewire), but do on Windows (USB 2.0) Sad . The USB Flash Drives are very cheap for 128 MB - 256 MB and have capacities up to 4 GB.
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Nigel
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2005 1:52 pm    Post subject: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Smart Boot Manager - BOOM not working Reply with quote

skecs wrote:
Nigel, I have seen a lot of problems with floppy disks and Windows XP over the past 18 months, especially with Compaq computers Evil or Very Mad , and it has got worse with the release of Service Pack 2. You can write to a brand new floppy disk on one system and walk to an identical system 2 metres away and the system wants to format the floppy disk. Put it back in the original system and the floppy disk is OK.


Good grief Shocked
I haven't used floppies much for several years now, except on one or two ancient bits of kit that don't have CDs or NICs (eg my MINIX box). I hadn't realised the situation had got that bad!

I used to get the problem regularly transferring data between a Compaq 386 desktop and a Toshiba 286 laptop - you had to make sure you formatted the disks on the Compaq or it wouldn't read them once the Tosh had written to them. None of the other machines in the office cared where the disks were formatted or written.
I know my better half threw out a bunch of 720k floppies recently because XP didn't seem to want to know about them - we assumed they were just worn out...
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2005 5:20 pm    Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Smart Boot Manager - BOOM not workin Reply with quote

floppies are the only way you can create a startup as using a memory key doesn't work as well as other usb devices, however i cannot be sure that floppies still work, like i said before they may have disabled them on thje newer computers, but not on the older ones.

going to back about the laws - doesn't everyone own school computers, they are public, if you are not harming them in away, accessing records or files from other people, it seems fair to do so. A school isn't a business, if it was well i would be getting paid! Alright, later skecs said that what you can do it is based on the school it admins - the law is generic or vauge. Let me have a look in my planner, it has the school computer rules...

Alright i'll put down our school it rules... and if you didn't follow them your banned of the computers for a certain note - all of the rules don't conflict me in j8ust using linux knoppix for work.

1. Sending or dispalying offensive messages or pictures. X
2. USing obscene language. X
3. Harrasing. etc. X
4. Damaging computers, networks. etc. X (knoppix wouldn't harm them at all)
5. Violating copyright. X
6. Using other passwords. X
7. Tresspasing other's folders.X
8Accesing sites for purpose of playing games etc. X
9. Attempting to access illegal sites. X
10. Intentionally wasting school resource. X

these are the proper school it rules and nothing is said about running linux, at least as long as it is not destroying winodws etc. which it shouldn't. So until i get it running and they see it, they will have to add a new policy or rule next year....

So i hope that the morality can be put into perspective, so i don't want mentioning the laws again
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towy71
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2005 5:56 pm    Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Smart Boot Manager - BOOM not workin Reply with quote

If you really have no ill intent why are you not registering on this site.
Everyone knows that someone has to take responsibility for any sort of hardware and that the responsible person is liable for any irregularity that happens on machines in his care.

If you really want Linux on your school computers talk to the technician!

This is not a put down but you have to demonstrate your responsibilities here too

Dick
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 28, 2005 9:36 pm    Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Smart Boot Manager - BOOM not workin Reply with quote

i am registered on this site, but i cannot be bothered putting in a password that was autogenerated - anyway our it technicans are quite stubborn well atleast from what i have heard from my friends, they won't even put on firefox even though it is safer, better and has better appeal, we have to stick with rubbish internet explorer. That should be a criminal offence? However if the machine did break down for some unknown reason it wouldn't cost much to repair probably and i have got small amount of cash. Responsibilites are needed, but it would be very unlikely for anything to go wrong and i know that i should take care, but it shouldn't stop me trying to reach a goal.

I'll have another go anyway tommorow, if it doesn't work on the newer computers i'll ask like you said, well when i start ict gcse's if i can put linux on as live cd, if they object i will have to start a debate - but it has great tools, which will give me an advantage on the work i do... Anyway can i just ask, how close are it technicans at other schools, compared to mine - like at our school, they stay in a room and hardly come out and you can only go there if you have been sent for something - which is unlikely, they only thing i can get across is to it teacher, but he hasn't heard of linux - any advice on explaining it to him?
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nelz
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 12:30 am    Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Smart Boot Manager - BOOM not workin Reply with quote

Oh FFS!

You only have ot put it in once. Then you can either change it to something easier to remember, or let cookies handle login automatically. If you can't be bothered to make an effort, why should anyone else?
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Nigel
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Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2005 9:03 pm
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Location: Gloucestershire, UK

PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 9:49 am    Post subject: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Smart Boot Manager - BOOM not wo Reply with quote

Anonymous wrote:
anyway our it technicans are quite stubborn well atleast from what i have heard from my friends


so you haven't even bothered talking to them yourself yet then ? Rolling Eyes

A piece of advice...

when you do talk to your sysadmins, and I do hope that you do, adopt a softly-softly approach. Don't go in demanding that you should be allowed to do this that & the other on their computers, as the reaction you will get will be "**** off you snotty little oik" (or something very similar).
Start off with things like "I'm interested in operating systems" and "what are your opinions" and "have you ever tried <insert name of your favourite distro>"
Also try "do you have a machine for testing new bits of software on ?" and "this looks like it might be worth a try - do you have some time to go through it with me ?".

Most doors can be opened if you go about it the right way.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 3:42 pm    Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Smart Boot Manager - BOOM no Reply with quote

yeh thanks for the tip, well i have tried it today, and guess what, well... yet again smart boot manager didn't work but when i put in a windows boot disc in it does! as in a floppy. so i have got proof that you can boot from the floppy drive, would anyone know an alterantive maybe to smart boot manager or maybe how i could create a knoppix boot discs as up to a certain version whihc i haven;t got doesn't have the script. Looking in windows, the floppy drive when i click on it says the disc is not formatted, wouldn't a boot disc have some files on it?

Hope you can help...
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nelz
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 4:42 pm    Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Smart Boot Manager - BOOM no Reply with quote

The disk is formatted, just not in a way Windows can read. Linux boot disks generally use an ext2 filesystem.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 5:16 pm    Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Smart Boot Manager - BOOM no Reply with quote

so is there anyway i can get smarboot manager to work or to get another one that can load knoppix?
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nelz
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 5:32 pm    Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Smart Boot Manager - BOOM no Reply with quote

Bearing in mind the previous comments on the quality and reliability of floppies, I'd try writing the image to a disk on the same computer that you want to use it on.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2005 7:38 pm    Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: Smart Boot Manager - BOOM no Reply with quote

well i had a go with that and still it did the same as with the black screen, would it better to use another option such as creating a proper bootdisk for knoppix or another floppy boot manager?
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