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OpenSUSE10.3 released
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Rhakios
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 9:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

towy71 wrote:
/me ducks as the topic flys off at a tangent Laughing
no fish involved too Wink


OpenSUSE10.3 works perfectly well with my cable connection.

Tada! Back on topic. Smile
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Marrea
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 9:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

towy71 wrote:
/me ducks as the topic flys off at a tangent Laughing


Sorry about that. Mea culpa. Razz

In between all the talk about Virgin Media and holly trees, I have in fact managed to get my SUSE 10.3 burned to DVD but will probably not have time to install it now until early next week. Family commitments over the weekend. Rolling Eyes
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nordle
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Back OT for 2 mins

Marrea
Since Max was released the whole network has been shaky.

Twice in the last 6 months I've had periods which match your description. After speaking to a techy dude, he _claimed_ it was likely to be down to software modifications used in the compression methods, beyond the usual contention issues.

Each time I've found that fiddling with the MTU and booting the router has sorted things.

(currently I'm on 1478, but YMMV, basic rule it should be either 1500 or 1478 (last ditch attempt 1458 and 1430)).

EDIT:

Ping can help, although it appears to apply an automatic overhead of 28, great for US, but for UK we appear to only have an overhead of 10.

For pppoa -s needs to be 10 less than target MTU. 1500 - 10

ping -c 11 -s 1490 www.google.co.uk

Hopefully 11 successful and 0% loss. If you get loss, try 10 less (-s switch) and try again.
Once 0% loss is achieved, increase by 1 until loss and then use a number 1-2 lower.
eg
1490 = 10% loss
1480 = 0% loss
1481 = 0% loss
1482 = 0% loss
1483 = 2% loss

1482 + 10 = So Router MTU should be set to 1492

Trouble is, you may end up with worse performance as excess padding is required.

1478 appears to be optimum ((1478+10)/48 = 31), but you can easily test this on a few sites, such as www.kbps.co.uk to see if your throughput is badly affected.
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Marrea
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 10:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nordle

Many thanks indeed for all this info (completely OT of course!!). Much to my surprise, I had no loss of connection all day yesterday and, as you will realise (otherwise I wouldn't be able to post this), it is still OK this morning. Yesterday was the first time for weeks I was able to connect all day without loss of service.

I am a bit busy today but will come back and check occasionally to see if I still have a connection. Tomorrow I am out visiting relatives, but will definitely have a look at this MTU business as soon as I can next week and report back.

Thanks again.
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Marrea
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just to say that I have popped into the router settings and seen that the MTU is set at 1458. That's all I have had time to do so far. Still no loss of connection today.
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pootman
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

More sunspots.
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Marrea
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nordle

I've managed to find time to do some pinging. Here is the readout:

Code:
[marrea@localhost ~]$ ping -c 11 -s 1490 www.google.co.uk
PING www.l.google.com (64.233.161.99) 1490(1518) bytes of data.

--- www.l.google.com ping statistics ---
11 packets transmitted, 0 received, 100% packet loss, time 10002ms


[marrea@localhost ~]$ ping -c 11 -s 1480 www.google.co.uk
PING www.l.google.com (64.233.183.99) 1480(1508) bytes of data.

--- www.l.google.com ping statistics ---
11 packets transmitted, 0 received, 100% packet loss, time 10000ms

[marrea@localhost ~]$ ping -c 11 -s 1470 www.google.co.uk
PING www.l.google.com (64.233.161.99) 1470(1498) bytes of data.
From www.routerlogin.com (192.168.0.1) icmp_seq=1 Frag needed and DF set (mtu = 1458)

--- www.l.google.com ping statistics ---
11 packets transmitted, 0 received, +1 errors, 100% packet loss, time 10000ms

[marrea@localhost ~]$ ping -c 11 -s 1460 www.google.co.uk
PING www.l.google.com (64.233.183.99) 1460(1488) bytes of data.
From www.routerlogin.com (192.168.0.1) icmp_seq=1 Frag needed and DF set (mtu = 1458)

--- www.l.google.com ping statistics ---
11 packets transmitted, 0 received, +1 errors, 100% packet loss, time 9998ms

[marrea@localhost ~]$ ping -c 11 -s 1450 www.google.co.uk
PING www.l.google.com (64.233.161.147) 1450(1478) bytes of data.
From www.routerlogin.com (192.168.0.1) icmp_seq=1 Frag needed and DF set (mtu = 1458)

--- www.l.google.com ping statistics ---
11 packets transmitted, 0 received, +1 errors, 100% packet loss, time 10008ms

[marrea@localhost ~]$ ping -c 11 -s 1440 www.google.co.uk
PING www.l.google.com (64.233.183.99) 1440(1468) bytes of data.

--- www.l.google.com ping statistics ---
11 packets transmitted, 0 received, 100% packet loss, time 9999ms

[marrea@localhost ~]$ ping -c 11 -s 1430 www.google.co.uk
PING www.l.google.com (64.233.161.99) 1430(1458) bytes of data.
64 bytes from od-in-f99.google.com (64.233.161.99): icmp_seq=1 ttl=237 (truncated)
64 bytes from od-in-f99.google.com (64.233.161.99): icmp_seq=2 ttl=237 (truncated)
64 bytes from od-in-f99.google.com (64.233.161.99): icmp_seq=3 ttl=237 (truncated)
64 bytes from od-in-f99.google.com (64.233.161.99): icmp_seq=4 ttl=237 (truncated)
64 bytes from od-in-f99.google.com (64.233.161.99): icmp_seq=5 ttl=237 (truncated)
64 bytes from od-in-f99.google.com (64.233.161.99): icmp_seq=6 ttl=237 (truncated)
64 bytes from od-in-f99.google.com (64.233.161.99): icmp_seq=7 ttl=237 (truncated)
64 bytes from od-in-f99.google.com (64.233.161.99): icmp_seq=8 ttl=237 (truncated)
64 bytes from od-in-f99.google.com (64.233.161.99): icmp_seq=9 ttl=237 (truncated)
64 bytes from od-in-f99.google.com (64.233.161.99): icmp_seq=10 ttl=237 (truncated)
64 bytes from od-in-f99.google.com (64.233.161.99): icmp_seq=11 ttl=237 (truncated)

--- www.l.google.com ping statistics ---
11 packets transmitted, 11 received, 0% packet loss, time 10018ms
rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 127.321/133.031/137.870/3.685 ms

[marrea@localhost ~]$ ping -c 11 -s 1431 www.google.co.uk
PING www.l.google.com (64.233.161.104) 1431(1459) bytes of data.
From www.routerlogin.com (192.168.0.1) icmp_seq=1 Frag needed and DF set (mtu = 1458)

--- www.l.google.com ping statistics ---
11 packets transmitted, 0 received, +1 errors, 100% packet loss, time 9999ms


As you will see, 1430 gave me 0% packet loss, but one up from that - 1431 - resulted in 100% packet loss.

So does this mean I need to add 10 to 1430 and set the MTU to 1440? According to the router details, my network type is PPPoA. (Sorry, all this is a bit new to me!)

Still no loss of connection at all today. I can't believe this. Almost two days now with uninterrupted service.
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nordle
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2007 11:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1458 is recommended for 2MB ADSL pppoa, if your using ADSLMAX (8MB) pppoa, then it should ideally be set to 1478.

I think you were getting packet loss because you perhaps didn't set your router to 1500 before the start of tests (apologies if you did).

You can see when you did -s 1430, it reported 1430(1458) bytes of data. Thats because it added 28 to your request (because US is mainly pppoe which has overhead of 28 rather than pppoa overhead of 10). And this matched your router. 1431 was 1459 and higher than the router was prepared to deal with.

To be honest, I would just set the router to 1478 and do a couple of normal
ping -c 11 www.yahoo.co.uk
and make sure there's no packet loss (if there is, go back to 1458).
Assuming no packets loss, keep at 1478 and keep an eye on the performance, it should be slightly better.
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spottedcat
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 8:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Marrea, I've been following this MTU conversation with interest. Sorry to hear that you've been having such trouble with your adsl. I checked my (Linksys) router and the mtu field is set to 'auto' which is interesting, and so far - touch wood - I haven't experienced the trouble you've had. I don't know whether this helps but I found this on my ISP's website:

Quote:
MTU stands for Maximum Transmission Unit. It is the maximum packet size, in bytes, that can be transmitted across a link. If your MTU is set too high, errors will cause each packet to be resent. This can cause issues with the performance/responsiveness of your ADSL connection.

The recommended MTU for use with BT UK ADSL is 1458. If this doesn't improve matters, you can try setting it to 1430.

The recommended MTU for use with ADSL 8 Mb connections should be 1500. If this doesn't improve matters, you can try setting it to 1478.

Determine your MTU

If you wish to acquire what your max MTU can be you can perform the following command in an MS-DOS prompt:

ping -f -l 1472 www.google.com

If you receive a message "packet needs to be fragmented" reduce the value 1472 by 10 and retry, taking 10 away each time until a successful reply is made, then increase by 1 until you are one away from receiving the message "packet needs to be fragmented" again.

Add 28 to this value you now have, and you now have your max MTU.


I was intrigued by the 'ping -f -l..' in an ms-dos prompt. I've checked 'man ping' and those flags make sense in Linux, so perhaps it's the same - I don't know. I'll be interested in what you find.

Oh, and sorry to go OT, but I've been playing with Suse 10.3. I'm impressed. I was put off Suse by the 10.1 package management debacle but I might start using it again....

Hang on a minute. That is the topic, isn't it? Smile
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wyliecoyoteuk
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

spottedcat:

Have you seen the new "single-click" installer links?

On click on a link in a web page can download and run a Yast metapackage to add repositories, download and install all required rpms, and configure the system to run it.


Of course you need to input the root password to allow it, but I find it a little worrying, in ways, a bit like a Windoze.installation.

Compizfusion 1-click for kde here

The instructions here do speed package management up, but I think that the "sqlite3 /var/cache/zypp/zypp.db vacuum" and "rpm --rebuilddb " are probably the most effective parts.
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spottedcat
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wyliecoyoteuk wrote:
Have you seen the new "single-click" installer links?


Yes, I have.* It's all becoming distressingly straightforward. Very Happy I've installed Suse with Gnome on one machine with an nvidia card (posting from there now), and Suse/KDE on another with an ATI card. All went very smoothly and adding repositories and installing software was easy. Here's the Jem Matzan hacking Suse 10.3 link for anyone who hasn't found it yet - for adding all the forbidden fruits which, of course, we all want anyway.

Having used (and enjoyed) Gentoo as my main distro for about a year now, I'm in danger of de-geeking myself with this latest Suse and the upcoming Gutsy, which is also very tasty. Mmm. Yum, yum. (No, sorry that's Fedora, isn't it? Embarassed )

* Edit: Oops, no I haven't. Misread your post. I thought you were referring to the one-click add-a-repo in Yast, so thanks for the information. I'll look out for that.

Edit 2: I've installed Suse 10.3 on my Sony laptop now. All very easy. Wireless and WPA configured with no trouble at all. Sound and graphics were correctly autoconfigured. Touchpad working properly. Suspend working. Screen dimming working (essential with a Sony Vaio). No complaints at all. Bit like falling off a log. All a bit boring really. Wink Hmm. What shall I do now?
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wyliecoyoteuk
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, it's all a bit disppointing.
No complaints- no moans- boring really.

Maybe I should install Vista so I can have a nice winge.....
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Rhakios
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2007 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Indeed, what has happened to the thrill of the new release?

As Linux has got better and more usable, some of the glamour, the thrill of the new, seems to have gone out of it.

It would also be nice if some of the new features were pinned to a stable and usable state for final releases. I have had very mixed results with the desktop technologies of Beryl/Compiz/Xgl/AIGLX/Metisse.
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Marrea
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nordle
I'm on 2MB ADSL pppoa, which I suppose is why my router was set to 1458. It must have done that automatically because I certainly didn't set it myself !!

Um, you're quite right. I didn't change the MTU to 1500 before I did the pinging. As I implied above I'm not quite au fait with all this. Confused

After two days of uninterrupted service (Friday and Saturday), this morning it was back to the old on and off connection. Then this afternoon it suddenly started working fine again. It's really odd because when it does stay connected it works brilliantly - web pages appear and change speedily, as you would expect.

Our telephone has also become incredibly noisy over the last six months or so and I'm convinced that has something to do with the ADSL problem. However, all BT tests have found that there is "no problem whatsoever on the line".

I've now set the router to 1478 and done a couple of
Code:
ping -c 11 www.yahoo.co.uk

as you suggested and there was no packet loss, so I've left it on that setting for now to see what happens.

spottedcat
Thanks for your extra input. When I ran
Code:
ping -f -l 1472 www.google.com

all I got was
Code:
ping: cannot set preload to value > 3

which wasn't what I was expecting.


I really think it's time I stopped fiddling with the router and got round to installing SUSE 10.3. I'm anxious to find out whether it will be as boring for me as it has obviously been for you lot. Smile
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spottedcat
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2007 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Marrea wrote:
When I ran
Code:
ping -f -l 1472 www.google.com
all I got was
Code:
ping: cannot set preload to value > 3
which wasn't what I was expecting.


Did you do that in Linux or from a command prompt in Windows? Although the Linux ping has -f and -l flags, I don't know whether they work the same as the MS-DOS ones. The original instructions were for Windows.


Marrea wrote:
Our telephone has also become incredibly noisy over the last six months or so and I'm convinced that has something to do with the ADSL problem. However, all BT tests have found that there is "no problem whatsoever on the line".


Tell me about it. Evil or Very Mad That's happened to me both in my present house and my previous one, fortunately before I got myself broadband. One time at my previous house, I was on the line to the 'report a fault' call-centre and the young lady there had just run some sort of on-line test and was telling me that there was no fault. All that through what sounded like an amplified recording of half-a-pig's-worth of bacon being fried, so I said, 'But can't you hear the noise?'

And she replied, 'Yes, it's terrible, isn't it? I can hardly hear you.' Rolling Eyes

Marrea wrote:
I really think it's time I stopped fiddling with the router and got round to installing SUSE 10.3. I'm anxious to find out whether it will be as boring for me as it has obviously been for you lot. Smile


I've been using Suse quite a lot since I downloaded it and I'm getting very pleasantly bored. Wink
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