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Anybody Totally Switch To Linux?
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ollie
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Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2005 12:26 pm
Posts: 2749
Location: Bathurst NSW Australia

PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bazza wrote:
Hi Bazza...

OK, maybe I should have written:-

"So MY XP OS is outliving this HW." ;o\

...

And as for all the others defending Linux "to the death" about
command line usage - I point you to our "Help" forum,
(other Linux specific sites also), and especially the LXF mag`.

;o)


Laughing

There is one task that I know of with Windows that can only be performed with the command line - Windows XP, Windows Vista, Windows 7 and probably the other versions as well. The command has changed - just to make it harder. You can't perform a Windows update from behind a proxy server without telling the system to import the proxy settings from Internet Explorer on the command line.

The command line is just another way of interacting with your computer - sometimes it is the fastest way to do something, sometimes it is the only way to do something, sometimes it's a way of starting a graphical interaction. Not using the command line is like a painter only using a 4" (10 cm) brush to paint a portrait. Rolf Harris could do it but he didn't paint any fine details Wink
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towy71
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Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2005 3:11 pm
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Location: wild West Wales

PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ollie wrote:
Not using the command line is like a painter only using a 4" (10 cm) brush to paint a portrait. Rolf Harris could do it but he didn't paint any fine details Wink
Depends on the scale doesn't it? If the canvas is 20' by 10' using a fine sable brush would be pointless Razz

oops have I gone off topic Wink
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ollie
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Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2005 12:26 pm
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Location: Bathurst NSW Australia

PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

towy71 wrote:
Depends on the scale doesn't it? If the canvas is 20' by 10' using a fine sable brush would be pointless Razz

oops have I gone off topic Wink


The fine sable brush might be required for fine detail, even on a large scale Razz

It's OK, it's in "Off Topic" Razz Laughing

Back on topic, use the best tool for the job - Linux, Mac OS X, Windows, FreeBSD or whatever.
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Bazza
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Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2009 11:16 am
Posts: 1477
Location: Loughborough

PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi ollie...

> You can't perform a Windows update from behind a proxy
> server without telling the system to import the proxy
> settings from Internet Explorer on the command line.

<cough-splutter smiley>
Spat my tea out laughing at that one.

You now have my undivided attention; I`m curious...

How many of the 1+ (US) Billion of the worlds population
that uses Windows of any genre know or even care about
this "MAJOR" CLI "FLAW" in the Windows OS?

Much less than the total number of users of all Linux flavours
I would guess...

;oD
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PCNetSpec
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Joined: Sun Feb 21, 2010 3:50 pm
Posts: 631
Location: Cornwall UK

PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Forum help doesn't *have* to be given as CLI commands, there is nearly always a GUI tool for the job these days.

Commands are generally given because they are easier to type and are more distro generic -

Click Places>Home folder, then right-click on file_to_be_copied and select Copy, Open the Desktop folder, right-click on a clear space inside the folder and select Paste.
(or even longer if it's a hidden file... just an extra "." in the CLI version)
(can I also point out, in Windows for a hidden file you would also have to enable "Show hidden files" which isn't as easily accessible as it is from most Linux file managers)

or

Code:
cp ~/file_to_be_copied ~/Desktop/file_to_be_copied


Commands also leave less room for *interpretation* and tend to be followed with more attention to detail/less getting ahead of the response, and can be easily copy>paste(d)

This doesn't mean nautilus/dolphin etc. don't exist... commands similar to the above are used regularly on Windows help forums (how many times do you see things like "you need to delete C:\Windows\System32\annoying_toolbar_popup-malware.dll"), but tend to stop at anything more involved (even if it's possible)... Linux forums tend to think people won't mind a response in command line format as they *want* to learn the true power of Linux, but if they say they are uncomfortable with the CLI, they usually get a GUI response.

Even Microsoft realised the need for a more powerful command line shell and scripting language...
Windows PowerShell

The only real difference is that Linux doesn't try to hide its all powerful CLI, whereas Windows seem to be ashamed of their puny affair (even continuing to call it a DOS box so they can say its lack of functionality is because it's old), whilst quietly trying to improve it... well at least that's something Wink
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Last edited by PCNetSpec on Tue Aug 24, 2010 2:01 pm; edited 10 times in total
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ollie
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Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2005 12:26 pm
Posts: 2749
Location: Bathurst NSW Australia

PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bazza wrote:
You now have my undivided attention; I`m curious...

How many of the 1+ (US) Billion of the worlds population
that uses Windows of any genre know or even care about
this "MAJOR" CLI "FLAW" in the Windows OS?

Much less that the total number of users of all Linux flavours
I would guess...

;oD


I didn't say it was a "MAJOR" CLI "FLAW" - just that you couldn't do it. People who use a proxy and those that should use a proxy are two very different numbers - most businesses should use a proxy, to help protect the business' IT environment and stop employees visiting questionable web sites. The alternative is setting up WSUS on a server and using that to update your Windows PCs - in this case using the command line is actually simpler.
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wyliecoyoteuk
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Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2005 11:41 pm
Posts: 3452
Location: Birmingham, UK

PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bazza wrote:
And as for all the others defending Linux "to the death" about command line usage - I point you to our "Help" forum, (other Linux specific sites also), and especially the LXF mag`.


And there is a good reason for that.
It's easier (and quicker, and less likely to be misunderstood) to post a command, or several commands that can be cut and pasted into a terminal:

Code:
 mke2fs /dev/fd0


than to post something like this:
Quote:

To format a floppy disk, follow these steps:

1. Start Windows Explorer, Windows NT Explorer, or My Computer.
2. Use the right mouse button to click the drive containing the floppy disk you want to format, and then click Format on the menu that appears.
3. In the Format dialog box, click the options you want to use to format the disk, and then click Start.


But there are plenty of windows help forums that are just the same:
Quote:

How to use Disk Management:

1. Log on as administrator or as a member of the Administrators group.
2. Click Start, click Run, type compmgmt.msc, and then click OK.
3. In the console tree, click Disk Management. The Disk Management window appears. Your disks and volumes appear in a graphical view and list view. To customize how you view your disks and volumes in the upper and lower panes of the window, point to Top or Bottom on the View menu, and then click the view that you want to use.

as for never needing the CLI in Windows,
Ipconfig and ping are 2 tools (amongst others) that spring to mind, which I use nearly every day on windows systems.

Migrating win2003 to win2003 R2 took a week and involved over 2xA4 pages of CLI commands, for tasks that could not be carried out from the GUI.

Having said that, none of my users ever have to use the CLI in either OS Razz
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PCNetSpec
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Joined: Sun Feb 21, 2010 3:50 pm
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Location: Cornwall UK

PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 3:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, probably better formatting/examples, but didn't I just say that Wink

Or maybe I've been watching too much Dave Ja Vu Wink
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wyliecoyoteuk
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Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2005 11:41 pm
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Location: Birmingham, UK

PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PCNetSpec wrote:
OK, probably better formatting/examples, but didn't I just say that Wink


Sorry, my fault, didn't realise there were 2 pages (clicked on a link in an email, took me to bazza's post)

Probably this DOS-based email client I always use Wink
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wyliecoyoteuk
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Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2005 11:41 pm
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Location: Birmingham, UK

PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2010 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another thought:
Because the windows file transfer and checking system is so rubbish (even now, transferring lots of files over a network connection takes forever, and often fails before it is finished)
I use DOS Xcopy or robocopy scripts for automated backups, ten time as fast, and they actually work!

I had a customer who was sold an expensive off-site backup system, and when they actually had a PC failure, they found out that the fancy system hadn't actually been working for 3 months.
But the xcopy script that I had installed when I sold them the PCs was still running (just copied changes to their docs folders and email files to another PC every time they shut down ).
They lost 3 emails.
Smile

Another customer has a big red button on their desktop with the legend "click me to backup" - guess what it runs.
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Ram
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Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 10:44 pm
Posts: 1674
Location: Guisborough

PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 12:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just fixed a XP laptop, no matter how it was started it just BSOD. Had to resorted to the XP Recovery Console from CD.

Ran
Code:
chkdsk /f
rebooted. corrected 4 error then locked up. But it was enough to allowed to system to boot thereafter. Reran
Code:
chkdsk /f
ran thought on the 2nd attempt.

Handed the laptop back the a grateful teenager.


if you install SP3 then you'll be back up to date Very Happy.
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jamie_tickner



Joined: Sun Oct 18, 2009 10:15 pm
Posts: 67
Location: north west England

PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have had exactly a year today of not using windows except when in work (my work machine is xp). I thought I would miss gaming but my snes and megadrive roms work fine.

I thought I would have problems with my iPod, gtkpod works fine.

Personally I think as a home user linux has come on a long way in terms of hardware support so I think a big thank you is in order to those who code their distros and kernel parts to make it work with hardware without any support from the manufacturers!!
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pastychomper



Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2010 11:54 am
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've never owned a copy of Windows. When I bought my first PC I did some research, decided to stick with the Microsoft stuff I knew, then changed my mind after yet another bug on my father's win95 box.

I did dual-boot with DOS for a while, but soon found I wasn't using it (most games worked under Dosemu) and I've been Linux only for about 9 years now. As the years went by, I've gradually lost some of my old antipathy towards Microsoft, but never found a good reason to use their software.
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jamesgrant



Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2011 10:44 pm
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Location: Bucks

PostPosted: Sat Jan 08, 2011 11:01 pm    Post subject: Only on my Laptop Reply with quote

Desktop dual boots Ubuntu and Windows 7 due to me being a Call of Duty fanatic (if I could do it on Linux (without slight lag in wine) then I would get rid of windows completely). My laptop has had ubuntu on it for the past 2 years. We have another 'family' laptop with windows 7 on it for the wife, I dont use it except to do something for her that she cant be bothered to spend 5 minutes learning about in order to do it for herself.
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linuxgirlie
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Joined: Sat Apr 09, 2005 7:34 pm
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Location: Kent...UK

PostPosted: Fri Jan 14, 2011 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I completely moved to Linux at home a long time ago now, can't even remember how long but over 8+ years. I don't dual boot or use Virtual box, but I do use Wine for two games.. World of Warcraft and Starcraft. Apart from that I only use open source software and I haven't really come across anything that I would need to move back to Windows for, and if my games get unsupported I will just stop playing and do something useful with my life....like go back to learning C programming rather than keep ignoring it, because I am to busy levelling to 85 Embarassed

At work we are nearly all Linux, and it won't be long till I think we will be completely converted(apart from the Macs), but again this is only possible with the help of Wine, which if it didn't exist we would have no choice but to run Windows as the software creators refuse to believe that schools use anything else.


Smile
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