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Bazza
LXF regular
Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2009 11:16 am
Posts: 1393
Location: Loughborough
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 Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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Hi DocMindwipe...
> *sigh*
> Why would you want to compile a new kernel (or Wine, or
> TuxCommander, or Gnome, or whatever) BEFORE you install
> the OS itself?
HHEELLPP MEEE...
I AM missing summat...
You are the one on about compiling a kernel.
The rest of us are asking why?
Without a kernel there is NO OS and to compile one on a blank
machine using Python is not possible, UNLESS the medium that
this "OS" is being installed FROM has the Python language to
start with AND the kernel/any source code with the required
tools to compile it too. So why not install the binaries direct?
Any performance loss will be " >NIL: "...
The odds are that loss of stability will probably be " >NIL: " also.
Hence my statement!
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nelz
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Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 12:52 pm
Posts: 8036
Location: Warrington, UK
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| Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 3:50 pm Post subject: |
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| DocMindwipe wrote: | | Not the point, whether or not you have a fixed set of hardware or not. |
Ah, I see where you're coming from now. You want a system that will build a kernel, not one that will build a kernel that always works. In that case, it's easy, wrap a GUI around "make localmodconfig" and you'll have support for all hardware currently on the computer.
I hadn't realised you were quite happy for it to break the first time you hotplugged something that wasn't present when you ran the auto-configuirator GUI - that makes life much easier.
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wyliecoyoteuk
LXF regular
Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2005 11:41 pm
Posts: 3369
Location: Birmingham, UK
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| Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 5:01 pm Post subject: |
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| towy71 wrote: |
I blame lack of proper training on computer use! 
As for mouse clicks that is just down to bad habits, they should have been using the tab key to change fields; with the advent of the GUI we have forgotten the basics of keyboard driven computing,  |
Nope, just impossible to stand over them and make them use the tab key, especially when it doesn't always work!
The trouble with a lot of GUIs is inconsistency.
Short-cuts and tab work on some screens, not on others, etc.
I have gone through an install on a server with no mouse, and it was fine until I reached a dialogue box that would only work with a mouse click!
Get rid of the rodent, and data entry becomes easier, simpler and quicker.
I see people all the time who use the mouse where tab or enter will work.
My other pet hate is people who use the capslock key instead of the shift key, as <capslock>L<capslock>etter.
Once sat through a database training course where the trainer did that on screen, very irritating.
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DocMindwipe
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2010 3:39 pm
Posts: 15
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| Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 5:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Bazza wrote: | Hi DocMindwipe...
> *sigh*
> Why would you want to compile a new kernel (or Wine, or
> TuxCommander, or Gnome, or whatever) BEFORE you install
> the OS itself?
HHEELLPP MEEE...
I AM missing summat...
You are the one on about compiling a kernel.
The rest of us are asking why?
Without a kernel there is NO OS and to compile one on a blank
machine using Python is not possible, UNLESS the medium that
this "OS" is being installed FROM has the Python language to
start with AND the kernel/any source code with the required
tools to compile it too. So why not install the binaries direct?
Any performance loss will be " >NIL: "...
The odds are that loss of stability will probably be " >NIL: " also.
Hence my statement! |
So... if I understand you correctly... you think I want to install <insert distro> but only want to use custommade kernel? you're wrong. I want to install <insert distro> THEN compile the kernel/programme/utility/whatever. Python was an example... if you managed to read my next post, you will see I mentioned a shell script called "winetricks.sh" which does almost all of what I've been talking about so far. Except call the compiler, and ask to review the choices so I can add for example all USB-addon devices.... or more filesystems to be used... |
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Bazza
LXF regular
Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2009 11:16 am
Posts: 1393
Location: Loughborough
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| Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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Hi DocMindwipe...
"So... if I understand you correctly... you think I want to
install <insert distro> but only want to use custommade
kernel? you're wrong. I want to install <insert distro>
THEN compile the kernel/programme/utility/whatever."
Apart from semantics - is there a significant difference?
"Python was an example..."
And not a good one IMO.
"if you managed to read my next post, you will see I
mentioned a shell script called "winetricks.sh" which does
almost all of what I've been talking about so far."
Then use it. I just blindly install my Linux Flavour and
don`t even consider compiling unless I have to. Python
is one of those conditions. :(
"Except call the compiler, and ask to review the choices so
I can add for example all USB-addon devices.... or more
filesystems to be used..."
But why bother? If binaries exist why not use them, it`s
miles easier.
On my netbook it took nearly 20 minutes to compile Python
on it. It took well over 10 minutes on this machine - JUST
for a Python install... :(
Time in the hand is much more important than wasting it
compiling.
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DocMindwipe
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2010 3:39 pm
Posts: 15
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| Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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Bazza.... please... if you don't WANT to compile anything from source, then that is YOUR choice. But you're completely missing a point here... namely that SOME people want todo it no matter what. SOME people would LIKE to, if it was easier. And soe people can't be ar**d and just use binaires.
So what is the problem of making it easier for those who want to try to compile stuff, but thinks it's "to tough" with the commandline? Your argument is that YOU don't want/need to... but you're happy to use the binaries which someone else has "wasted their time" compiling to make it easier for you. |
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Bazza
LXF regular
Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2009 11:16 am
Posts: 1393
Location: Loughborough
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| Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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Hi DocMindwipe...
"Bazza.... please... if you don't WANT to compile anything
from source, then that is YOUR choice."
Absolutely, BUT, some SW for Linux Flavours is only available
in source form and has to be compiled - where is my choice
now... :(
"But you're completely missing a point here... namely that
SOME people want todo it no matter what. SOME people
would LIKE to, if it was easier. And soe people can't be
ar**d and just use binaires."
Now, _this_ could be your new vocation...
If it is SO important to you, why not develop a universal
installer of your own. GPL it and invite guys on here to
help you. I`m sure many would. I`m not clever enough
but there are many on here who are...
I know there is a directory on the DVD for such ideas that
Mike has kept free for all ideas for/and LXF "development".
"So what is the problem of making it easier for those who
want to try to compile stuff, but thinks it's "to tough" with
the commandline?"
Be my/our guest...
You never know, you may get many willing participants.
"Your argument is that YOU don't want/need to... but you're
happy to use the binaries which someone else has "wasted
their time" compiling to make it easier for you."
And......
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Rhakios
Moderator
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 12:18 am
Posts: 7484
Location: Midlands, UK
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| Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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Didn't there used to be an app that you could point at a source tarball and it would try to compile it for you? I don't know how well it worked as I never got around to trying it.
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Bazza
LXF regular
Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2009 11:16 am
Posts: 1393
Location: Loughborough
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| Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 8:05 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Rhakios...
I have a genuine "Fall Edition 1995 P'n'P YGGDRASIL" with
manual and goodies, and that installed much from the
source. It required two CDs; one to initiate a basic install
and the other to finish off with an "install" from the source
code.
It never worked...
Installed Windows 95 and that worked out of the box...
To nelz...
Did you ever get it working?
BTW "Helpdex" in LXF 138 is applicable to this thread... ;oD
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nelz
Moderator
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 12:52 pm
Posts: 8036
Location: Warrington, UK
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| Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 9:04 pm Post subject: |
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No, I didn't have any hardware old enough to be supported 
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Rhakios
Moderator
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 12:18 am
Posts: 7484
Location: Midlands, UK
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| Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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The thing I vaguely recall was for compiling individual apps from source, rather than entire distros. I would think a former disc editor might remember such a thing. 
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nelz
Moderator
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 12:52 pm
Posts: 8036
Location: Warrington, UK
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| Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 9:55 pm Post subject: |
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I do have a vague recollection of something like this, but many of my recollections are vague.
I take it your aren't thinking of checkinstall but something more inclusive?
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Rhakios
Moderator
Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 12:18 am
Posts: 7484
Location: Midlands, UK
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| Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 11:04 pm Post subject: |
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Quite, stretching my memory to its limits, I think it was something like an archive manager that offered the extra feature of running configure>make and install. I might be conflating the memory with that of another tool that told you what dependencies were missing if things went awry.
I don't feel too much like digging through over 100 LXFs to find out though.
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Bazza
LXF regular
Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2009 11:16 am
Posts: 1393
Location: Loughborough
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| Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Rhakios...
You could always gleg through the archives on here... ;oD
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Bazza, G0LCU...
Team AMIGA... |
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nelz
Moderator
Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 12:52 pm
Posts: 8036
Location: Warrington, UK
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| Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Code: | % gleg
zsh: command not found: gleg |
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