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What's preventing mainstream adoption of Linux
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guy
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Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2005 1:07 pm
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 9:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nelz wrote:
I don't know if they still do it, but Ubuntu used to set the system to default to using their time server, which gave a pretty good indication of how many people were using it.


That's cool. Maybe someone should shout that louder - ISTR seeing Linux usage "estimates" from the FUD community that are lower than Canonical's figures for active Ubuntu users.
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alan404



Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2005 4:34 pm
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Location: Haslemere, Surrey UK

PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A major difference between Windows and Linux software is the Windows stuff is made to sell, so it looks nice, is well documented and helpful. Often (I'm generalising) Linux open source software is written by people who want it to do certain tasks for themselves, and as they've wrote it, they know how it works and also aren't often skilled in an artistic way. So if we think about 4 types of computer users as below

1. Non technical home user. These people need helpful well documented software, but not necessarily advanced functions

2. Technical computer hobbyists -- need something customisable and have enormous satisfaction from working out a clever way round how to do something easily and simply, which may take a day to fathom out.

3. Straightforward business users. Need reliability and to never have a problem connecting up with something else they need to connect with (hardware or software)

4. Specialist, professional users. Such as graphic artists, musicians, technicians who connect to things for setting up, and computer programmers.

Now if Linux cost more to buy than Windows, who out of the above would buy it? Probably item 2 plus computer programmers. What stops most ordinary people is the thought of "there's something I won't be able to do". For instance I've just bought an iPod touch for my son. The thought of setting it up when it arrives and putting music on it is a living nightmare. So you can seem that Windows 7 or Mac is tempting at this point -- I could just have one system which does everything with no hassle (as long as cost is no object). Yes you will say, don't buy an iPod, they are evil. To which I say yes, I know, but everyone has iPods. It's not a specialist use of computers.
I'm not putting Linux down, I've used it since Fedora 1, but not for absolutely everything.
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jamie_tickner



Joined: Sun Oct 18, 2009 10:15 pm
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it is down to marketing and the fact that most computers are bought with Windows already on.

Everyone I have showed linux to loves it, I myself only use Windows in work because I have to even though to do my job I could easily do it using Mint with Inkscape, Kompozer, OpenOffice, Scribus, Gimp, Picasa and VLC installed!!

Both me and my brother do not use windows at home and haven't done for around 2 years.

I think alan404's categories 1,2,3 could easily do their functions with linux, however category 4 may struggle if they have to use a few crucial apps that are windows/osx only and don't work under wine.
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nelz
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

alan404 wrote:
1. Non technical home user. These people need helpful well documented software, but not necessarily advanced functions


When did non-technical home users start reading documentation?
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DavidMcCrossan
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Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 10:46 am
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 4:03 pm    Post subject: Whats preventing mainstream adoption of linux? Reply with quote

Spot on, Nelz!

Remember the mantra of support desk staff "when all else fails, read the instructions..."

Best

David
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guy
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since when was any documentation fit for a non-technical home user anyway? I know - I write the stuff for a living Wink

Meanwhile, there is a highly influential group who dominate the corporate buy - the top managers who need productivity tools above all else. Let's face it, when it comes to productivity toys Microsoft Office knocks OOo and friends into a cocked hat. (You don't believe me? How many top managers have you discussed desktop productivity with?) So with that decision made, the rest of us get the same build.

And when Joe Soap goes off to buy a PC for home use, does he want another nauseating learning curve? No, he buys the Home edition of the devil he thinks he knows.

So there you have it - make OOo soar like an eagle, give Thunderbird shared folders, implement seamless drag-and-drop between web apps and the desktop, and then maybe, just maybe, someone somewhere will begin to take the Linux desktop seriously.
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Bazza
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 25, 2010 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi...

Have you ever tried to decipher some of the MAN pages?

You need a degree to understand a third of the options.

Try "man stty" for example. <horror smiley>
(Hudzilla`s logic is certainly needed here. :-( )

Linux is still a geeks operating system whatever anyone says.

I personally like PCLinuxOS for its sheer simplicity and it
just seems to work, EXCEPT, for the Wireless and the Webcam.
The wireless I couldn`t care less about but......

The webcam is in the device list but the apps do not see it.

GIMP doesn`t even know it exists.

In Windows XP it just works OOTB and apps see it immediately.

Photoshop easily sees the webcam!

Linux is much like the AMIGA to me, something for me to hack,
but until I can use it for my professional needs then it takes
a back seat to Windows as ALL manufacturers programming
SW is purely Windows based only. :(
I don`t see that changing in the forseeable future at all.
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wyliecoyoteuk
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2010 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess you never tried reading the DOS manual Wink

Actually, I am quite surprised that Photoshop can see the webcam Smile
I'm even more surprised that anyone would have see that as a useful feature!

Gimp doesn't see the webcam, because it is a photo editor, not a video app.
Try one of the webcam apps, Cheese, VLC, Skype etc.

I really do tire of the Linux this windows that.
I support Windows, Mac and Linux users on a network where they ALL use Exchange and a mixture of Windows, Mac and Linux hosted apps.
For the vast majority of office workers, there is no appreciable difference in terms of usability.

I was recently running a multi-seat pc trial, and just out of interest, I got two participants, neither of which had ever seen Ubuntu or Windows 7, (although they both use XP at work), to carry out a few simple tasks on each OS ( create a text file, print it, watch a youtube video, etc) and mark them out of 5.
I was really surprised.
They both marked Ubuntu much higher than windows 7 in terms of ease of use.
I was less surprised that it also scored higher in performance terms.

Got a question today from a guy who came in to rejig the reports on our Universe Database system.
"What are you running that on? It's really fast!"
He was even more surprised when we told him it was a 4 year old 2.5Ghz Xeon with 2 Gb of ram - running Red Hat Smile
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Bazza
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2010 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi wyliecoyote...

> I guess you never tried reading the DOS manual ;)

I`m not that bright... :O

> Actually, I am quite surprised that Photoshop can
> see the webcam :)

Why? Webcams can do single shot images easily.

> I'm even more surprised that anyone would have see
> that as a useful feature!

This statement is irrelevant; the fact that Photoshop does
shows Linux apps are still not up to it. Any app that is
capable of working on images, fixed and/or motion, should
be able to IMPORT from ANY source, NOT just the sources
the designers think should be used.

It is _I_ who should have the choice of which app to use for
my webcam and the fact that the No1 image processing
SW for Linux can`t, means it still has a long way to go to
beat the Windows and Mac platform`s competition.

> Gimp doesn't see the webcam, because it is a photo editor,
> not a video app.

See above...

Also read Dr Brown`s mini-rant in LXF Issue 130...
Says it all really... ;oO

The Doc writes interesting articles AFAIAC.



EDIT:

Forgot to add, Windows Paint sees my webcam too and you
can`t get much more basic than that!
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guy
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2010 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wyliecoyoteuk wrote:
He was even more surprised when we told him it was a 4 year old 2.5Ghz Xeon with 2 Gb of ram - running Red Hat Smile

Apparently one of Red Hat's three biggest business areas is ... Government! (Thanks to Linux today for the link).
Not on the desktop though, in my experience.
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wyliecoyoteuk
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Joined: Sun Apr 10, 2005 11:41 pm
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2010 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bazza wrote:


Any app that is
capable of working on images, fixed and/or motion, should
be able to IMPORT from ANY source, NOT just the sources
the designers think should be used.


Try importing ANY image into office 2007 Wink
Scanning an image directly into office used to be a 3 click process, now it is incredibly complicated.
I expect you are using a WIA compliant webcam.
Thing is they are similar to the GDI printers and scanners that only work with windows, mainly because they are cheaper to produce, because they offload their image processing to the PC, and incidentally, that stops them working with any other OS. In fact they are often forbidden (by MS) to port them to any other OS.
So you are complaining that a piece of hardware that is explicitly designed to work only with windows only works with windows?

So you do not have the choice, Microsoft does.

Anyway, you are missing the point. The Linux solution is totally modular, you need to plug things together differently.

Expecting Linux to do things the same way as Windows is just stupid. They are different solutions, with different aims and designs.

Most of the expensive professional scanners my company sells do not interface directly with Windows apps, and for a good reason - it is a waste of time.


Why would you want to import a poor quality webcam image into Photoshop directly when there are far better solutions?

Edit: and when photoshop is free then this argument might just be viable.

Linux is not Windows, nor is it meant to be
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Bazza
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2010 10:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi wyliecoyote...

> Try importing ANY image into office 2007 ;)

I quoted "ANY SOURCE" NOT "ANY IMAGE"... ;o]

> I expect you are using a WIA compliant webcam.

Nope. Read my posts again!

My webcam IS IN the device list, (with a suitable driver).
It is the apps that don`t see it, NOT that it is unavailable.

Obviously the webcam is not good enough for GIMP but
more than good enough for Photoshop.

So I`ll stick with Photoshop... :o)

> Why would you want to import a poor quality webcam
> image into Photoshop directly when there are far better
> solutions?

I don`t, I was merely making a point that an app that in
theory should see HW relevant to what the app was
intended for also should AT LEAST pick the HW up on its radar.
GIMP, the flagship of Linux`s image processing, doesn`t!

Much as I hate Windows, some things Windows does, it does
do correctly IMO. :)

And to re-iterate, (as I said in the last upload).......

Read Dr Brown`s mini-rant in LXF130...
Says it all really.
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wyliecoyoteuk
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 8:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bazza wrote:
Hi wyliecoyote...

> Try importing ANY image into office 2007 Wink

I quoted "ANY SOURCE" NOT "ANY IMAGE"... ;o]


And the difference is.......?

Any Image has to have a source:P
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ollie
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 8:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Bazza, try File > Create > XSane > Device dialog... - my webcam is actually listed just below this option by default.
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wyliecoyoteuk
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 9:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bazza wrote:


Much as I hate Windows, some things Windows does, it does
do correctly IMO. Smile


I really hate the "Windows always works perfectly " threads.
I support windows in the field, and it breaks quite often, and it is often difficult to fix.

I have a Dell laptop 18 months old,with a combo CDwriter/DVDrom.
Works fine in XP and Opensuse, Dell site says it is Vista and 7 compatible.
Windows 7 insists on seeing it as a CDROM.
I spent an afternoon Googling and reading pages of stuff on the MS website.
Dell points you at Windows update, which fails to identify it.
There are loads of posts on this problem, and no fix.
Windows 7 still refuses to burn CDs...
Quote:


And to re-iterate, (as I said in the last upload).......

Read Dr Brown`s mini-rant in LXF130...

I think that you are actually referring to LXF131
Quote:

Says it all really.

Wink
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