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jjmac
LXF regular


Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2005 2:32 am
Posts: 1996
Location: Sydney, Australia

PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 3:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Howdy,


Rhakios wrote:
Quote:

>>
The idea that Debian is simply a rolling update distro is rather confounded by dramatic changes like that from KDE3.5.10 to KDE4.4.5. One would really expect a more gradual update path. The fact that one can upgrade between stable releases is also found in other distros that have no problems with saying that they release oriented.
It has nothing to do with FUD, look the term up before you use it.
>>


Look it up yourself. Your a touchy bugger at times Rhakios, and i think its' usage there is obviously general. Otherwise i would have been more specific.

I do think that it is a drift that finds it's way into Linux discussions though. Which btw, is all part of its' insidiousness.

>>
a rolling update distro is rather confounded by dramatic changes like that from KDE3.5.10 to KDE4.4.5.
>>

kde will always present as a special case. Are you saying it can't be packaged/compiled ?

>>
The fact that one can upgrade between stable releases is also found in other distros
>>

'stable' ??? (grin)


jm
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The FVWM wm -=- www.fvwm.org -=-

Somebody stole my air guitar, It happened just the other day,
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Bazza
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Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2009 11:16 am
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Location: Loughborough

PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi jjmac...

[OT] I notice the pointer in your sig to FVWM...

Do you participate in its development?
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jjmac
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Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2005 2:32 am
Posts: 1996
Location: Sydney, Australia

PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 4:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Howdy Bazza,

No, i wish i had the time to indulge though. But i have been using it from early Red Hat days where it was provided in the form of 'Another Level'. It was a really hard config to unravel to, expecially for a new-bie. I don't think kde was actually available at the time (gpl issues ?) (red hat 5.0) and gnome was _very_ buggy, my memory is a bit vague on those points. All a person had to do was touch the task bar with a mouse pointer to crash it. So i guess it was a natural choice. If it hadn't been provided, i guess i possibly wouldn't have tried it. And there is a point there. Even though there are a variety of wm's available, if searched for, people will tend to ignore them unless they are made immediately available. And in some sought of sane level of configuration. And yes, it is the old story -- 'if not one self, then who', 'if not now then when' etc. So i wont be whingeing (sic ?) on to much on that level. The gentoo site does have some quite good forums on various development lines, and quite a good one for fvwm, though i haven't visited those for quite a while now.

I have managed a good working config over time though. And had a lot of fun (an trauma (grin) ) along the way too.

I do wish i had more time, and it does amaze me the way open source developers manage to find it.

As far as the programing side of things go, i suppose i would be ok for pecking away at bits and pieces, which is basically how i go about my own stuff generally. But not for full on contributions. What a pathetically boring excuse, as a lot of developers do say that when they started off, it was at a slow pace, which picked up steam as they went along.

But as it is, i haven't touched my configs for ages. Mainly a time thing.

How about yourself - it is a bit of a thread drift (grin) - but what the heck. Have you tried vary many different types of wms. If so, what did you think of them. Just out of interest.

btw 'www.twobarleycorns.net' is a good source for fvwm info/configs.

fvwm maybe a little unexpectedly different to other managers in the way it is 'taught/learnt' . In that there are no specific instructions involved. No real preferred way. It is done, and is the preferred method, by taking an existing config and working with that (changing things). Its' whole look and feel, including the kind of functionality that's provided, is configurable/customisable. I have seen a version that, if it wasn't known, would have passed very well for a kde front end (grin), just though the use of images. If anything, it really becomes an exercise in 'm4' preprocessing techniques. M4 is another one of those great unsung Unix tools imo, up there with the likes of 'sed' and others. And it is what basically lies behind fvwm drivers.

In any case, hope that's not to long a response. It can be a bit of a habbit of mine at times.


jm
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Nerdy-ish



Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2010 9:05 am
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Location: Infront of computer

PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Rhakios"]
jjmac wrote:
The idea that Debian is simply a rolling update distro is rather confounded by dramatic changes like that from KDE3.5.10 to KDE4.4.5.


I disagree. You want a dramatic change go from KDE 3.5.x to KDE 4.1.x IIRC, which in Mandriva was an enforced change. Lots of KDE applications did not work, many were not ported (and still not ported to this day), and to make it worse, you could NOT roll back to 3.5 because all the files needed to run it were deleted.

That change was very painful.

Hell, even now there are applications with huge chunks missing from them compared to the working KDE 3.5 versions (Amaork with no graphic equaliser for gstreamer backend, and a script manager that locks up Amarok the second you try and do anything).
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jjmac
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Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2005 2:32 am
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Location: Sydney, Australia

PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 7:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Howdy Nerdy-ish,

Not being a kde person i'll limit my self to just saying that i don't like library interdependent desk-tops. And i also don't think a distro should draw its' definition from them. It should allow for porting though. If not --- then it is a tie in expression imo.

Note: That's not my statement. I sometimes forget to use the quote tags if i'm in a rush and just use the older angle braces to denote a quote from another post.


jm
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The FVWM wm -=- www.fvwm.org -=-

Somebody stole my air guitar, It happened just the other day,
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nelz
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Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2005 12:52 pm
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Location: Warrington, UK

PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 8:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jjmac wrote:
Note: That's not my statement. I sometimes forget to use the quote tags if i'm in a rush and just use the older angle braces to denote a quote from another post.


Why not simply use the Quote button instead of Post Reply?
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Brian Hunter



Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2011 7:44 pm
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Location: Glasgow, Scotland

PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2011 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I used Debian Unstable for a while and I liked it. I would use it again.
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jjmac
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Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2005 2:32 am
Posts: 1996
Location: Sydney, Australia

PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2011 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Howdy nelz

Oh ... good_grief.png

nelz wrote:
jjmac wrote:
Note: That's not my statement. I sometimes forget to use the quote tags if i'm in a rush and just use the older angle braces to denote a quote from another post.


Why not simply use the Quote button instead of Post Reply?


Well, i did that time. Now just nod your head and slowly ... (grin).

hmmmmm, i don't know why really. Just habit possibly. Plus i usually like to only partially quote and to also do multiple quotes at times.


jm
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The FVWM wm -=- www.fvwm.org -=-

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nelz
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PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2011 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jjmac wrote:
i usually like to only partially quote


The delete key works within quote tags.

jjmac wrote:
and to also do multiple quotes at times.


That works too Razz
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Bazza
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Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2009 11:16 am
Posts: 1474
Location: Loughborough

PostPosted: Thu May 05, 2011 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi jjmac...

> How about yourself - it is a bit of a thread drift (grin) - but what the heck.
> Have you tried vary many different types of wms. If so, what did you
> think of them. Just out of interest.

Just the major ones and use KDE on my netbook and Gnome on this
tub...

Attempted to get the 2010 version amiwm:-

http://www.lysator.liu.se/~marcus/amiwm.html

But failed miserably, far too many dependencies; dependencies get right
up my nose... >:(
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jjmac
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Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2005 2:32 am
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Location: Sydney, Australia

PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2011 6:42 am    Post subject: What was the ? again :) Reply with quote

Howdy nelz,


nelz wrote:
Quote:

i wrote:
>>
i usually like to only partially quote
>>

nelz wrote:
>>>>
The delete key works within quote tags.

jjmac wrote:
>>
and to also do multiple quotes at times.
>>


That works too
>>>>



The above, as maybe guessed (grin), is all manually quoted. The use of 'angle-braces' is just a habit i picked up by hanging on boards/forums that were email based. And tended to be brief in terms of any high feluting (sic?) facilities. Basically the ck list when it was still alive.

I admit the angle-braces can get a bit confusing. But ... i haven't been able to get a multiple quoting format (from diff posts) to work in the one submit page as yet. Unless i was to use a separate 'tab' for each one, then copy/past the others into the first. I haven't as yet, but will experiment with that.

Arrrrha --- does this mean that a 'add quote' button may need implementing Smile.

nelz wrote:

That works too Razz


The above was made with a copy/past from a separate submit page --- via keying the quote button. No great dramas encounted there.

hmmmm, there is an outside chance that you may well be right here nelz. I'll have to test this a bit more to be further sure though, of course (grin).

Is there a better way than the copy/past one i used above ? Smile


Howdy Bazza,

Now there's a quoting style for you hehe. Yes, very freestyle ...

I fetched that wm tar.gz and did a test config and make, but not an install as yet. I didn't have any dependency problems with it. But my system is fairly good when it comes to build libs and headers. And or things that i may only have any use for, maybe once or twice in a life time. I'll have to see what happens on the install though, and then on the supsequent using of.

I did in the past have lots of hair-pulling sessions with dependencies, mainly trying to compile gtk apps that were tied into gnome. It did drive me quite bonko. But ...once the main packages are in, all that type of thing dropped off.

Pontifying for a bit here:
----------------------------------
I have heard it mentioned that a standadised lib set should be implemented. I think that in an ideal world it would be possible. But, not in the competative one we currently have. Generic methods really are better.

The amiwm i briefly checked:

Code:

]$ wget -x -c ftp://ftp.lysator.liu.se/pub/X11/wm/amiwm/amiwm0.21pl
2.tar.gz 2>&1 |tee -a may-2011-amiwm0.21pl2.tar.gz.log


Which fetched amiwm0.21pl2.tar.gz at 195128 bytes

Code:

gcc version: gcc (Debian 4.3.2-1.1) 4.3.2


I did the test build in a separate build dir in the same top dir that the package was unpacked to. No problems.

What kind of dependency problems did you have ?, there doesn't seem to be anything to it really.
Is that the same as the '2010' version you mention, it appears to be the only one there on the site.
I never had any contact with the Amiga and i'm looking forward to see how it comes up.

In case anybody is wondering why do Linux people bother with learning its' ways. Well, can you imaging trying to get a multiple wm setup working in windows Smile Smile.

That's one reason Wink

PS:
-----
I forgot to mention, a good wm should display three basic things

1) It dosen't argue the point with the user. If the user is wrong, then that will quickly become apparent.

2) It allow the user to creat functionality, and has the engines/modules able to handle such add functionality. And the user additions need to easily and seemlessly slot in with the provided functionality.

3) It must be allowed to look anyway the user wants it to look like. Good grief ... all it involves is associating an image with a window boarder, or a root background. What's it matter if the user hasen't got any tast (who really has anyway (grin)). In time, and with some feed back, then that will all be acquired.

As is the OSS way.

cheers

jm
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The FVWM wm -=- www.fvwm.org -=-

Somebody stole my air guitar, It happened just the other day,
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jjmac
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Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2005 2:32 am
Posts: 1996
Location: Sydney, Australia

PostPosted: Fri May 06, 2011 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Howdy All,


Bazza ...

I just installed amiwm to, '/usr/local/amiwm0/'.

It reminds me of my initial fvwm install in a way. Well, actually it is a bit worse than that. Once i get the scheme fonts up to a size and type that i can read, then i'll be better placed to start attempting to do something with it.

The screen shots on the 'home' site look promising. But there appears to be an _acute_ lack of any documentation with this wm. The home site is more or less bare (cactus shade).

Would there be anyone reading this that might have some hints on the configuration ?. The info in the src package is very scant. To go by that, then there arn't very many options to it.

It has a 'command' dialog, but what commands ?.

I also dloaded the 'ratpoison' wm that was linked via Mike Saunders posting on the lxf front page (i think).
I find something about the name that is somewhat attractive and hope it can live up to that with out to much sacrifice.

So ... there's two things to drive me crazy for a while i guess. Shall see.


jm
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The FVWM wm -=- www.fvwm.org -=-

Somebody stole my air guitar, It happened just the other day,
But it's ok, 'cause i've got a spare ...
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