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Bazza · Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 1:24 pm Post subject:

Hi AndyBaxman...

Erm, I didn't quote the above at all, nelz did. Is that why the written
reference is there?

I'm curious...

Why should I have to scrap a vehicle that is KNOWN to be off of the
road by the powers that be and they still have a record of?

Why suddenly does this situation make all owners of old cars, like
many that are in farms with weeds growing around them, potential
criminals?

What was wrong with the old method that if your vehicle was not
on the road prior to the 1998 date it was considered as SORN?

It all comes down to revenue, in the form of OTS fines or
prosecutable fines. There are thousands of semi-restored vehicles
out there that have have now got to have SORN or the owners
can be prosecuted.

Why change the status quo?

REVENUE that's why.

I have no problem with taking old junk off of the road but
semi-restored vehicles?

Come on gimme a break, get real...
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towy71 · Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 1:45 pm Post subject:

All legal vehicles can be taxed online because the details of the MOT and insurance are stored on the DVLA's computers; the logic of SORN is clearly to enable people to keep that machine on the database as being a possible legal road user once again.
It may be that the legislation is draconian but, as a victim of an accident where some gobshite drove into my car and then sped away leaving me with a written off car and loss of my no claims bonus, I don't think it is much of an onus to SORN your hobby horse Wink

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Bazza · Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 2:10 pm Post subject:

Hi towy71...

How is a SORN going to cure that situation?

The driver could have been drunk and this situation would
have nothing to do with SORN what-so-ever...

Those assholes would never be legal anyhow!
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Bazza, G0LCU...

Team AMIGA...

PCNetSpec · Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 2:26 pm Post subject:

I give up... I'm baffled as to why some cannot see this as a small infringement of civil liberties.

People NEED to question the motives behind these things, and how they may impact on things that may not at first appear to be directly connected.

But as the thread is now descending into people saying "that's a ridiculous conclusion" and others implying (incorrectly) that I'm "happy to see unsafe and uninsured cars on the roads", I think reasoned discussion has come to an end.

I understand the frustration of having so many unsafe and uninsured cars on the roads, but IMHO the SORN is totally unecessary, and an erosion of the presuption of innocence, which should not be accepted as a justifiable fix.

People who are intent on using vehicles illegally are going to continue to do so, they'll just fill in a SORN, then drive the car, they have already decided to risk the fine (and peoples live)... the main impact is on those that aren't.

I also agree with Bazza that the sole reason behind the SORN is financial, and that as a subsequence it criminalises people that weren't (up to the point of its introduction) breaking any laws.

I refuse to *unquestioningly* accept unecessary laws that criminalise people that are doing nothing wrong.

This does NOT mean I'd be brave enough to refuse to comply Wink

.. I'm ashamed to say, I leave such justifiable acts of defiance to the "activists".
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Bazza · Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 3:10 pm Post subject:

Hi PCNetSpec...

I give up too...

It does seem a contradiction in terms when suddenly I could
become a criminal for something that I have NOT done...

Oh well, such is life...
_________________
73...

Bazza, G0LCU...

Team AMIGA...

lok1950 · Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 3:51 pm Post subject:

I see it as moving the goal posts as PCNetSpec stated why the need to declare innocence in advance.

Enjoy the Choice Smile

towy71 · Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2011 3:57 pm Post subject:

I'm sorry Bazza I now have read through a load of stuff about SORN and agree it is bad law and should be rescinded asap. Sadly we all know that ain't going to happen unless someone with very deep pockets can take the thing to judicial review because natural justice dictates there should be some method of appeal.
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AndyBaxman · LXF regular Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2005 9:47 am Posts: 519

AndyBaxman · LXF regular Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2005 9:47 am Posts: 519

Ram · Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 9:52 am Post subject:

Doesn't a vehicle that's been SORN, if found on the road (not going to/from a pre booked MOT ) give the police the authority have the vehicle towed & crushed.

Where if you had just forgot to renew your tax and where caught you'd be fined and owe money from the 1st of the current month, if not from the following day of expired tax disc.
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guy · Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 1:18 pm Post subject:

Yes there is a principle of justice that we are innocent until proved guilty and in a free society we do not have to demonstrate that innocence.

But there is also a principle that society has a right to defend itself. A car is a lethal weapon. Guns, combat knives, explosives, poisons, aeroplanes, power grids, each has a bureaucracy wrapped around it so that unless you are deemed safe enough you cannot be let loose with it. The UK has the busiest roads - and among the safest - in Europe. We square this circle by enlightened management of the bureaucracy. Too many bad guys were abusing the previous law, so we tightened it up.

You never replied - do you want to give these bad guys looser rein, as long as they stick to older motors? Do you want to encourage the higher death toll, the higher number of uninsured drivers, we are trying to fix? Or perhaps you have a better idea how to go about that? Let's hear less of the injured innocence in a vacuum and more of the responsible citizen in today's society.
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guy · Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 1:26 pm Post subject:

wyliecoyoteuk · Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2011 10:12 pm Post subject:

Sorry, but you have to register a lethal weapon, i.e. you have to license a gun.
Just because a gun is an antique does not exclude it from the law, simply because it is still possible to kill someone with it.
A vehicle is a potentially lethal weapon.
You have to license it, and you have to specify if is off-road or not.
The roadside cameras rely on the SORN database to catch illegal drivers.
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stuartpalmer · Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 8:47 am Post subject:

If you think the SORN system is bad, you should try taking on the TV licensing Gestapo!

ollie · Posted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 12:33 pm Post subject: