How many people actually need adobe photoshop?, office,etc?

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How many people actually need adobe photoshop?, office,etc?

Postby wyliecoyoteuk » Fri Apr 14, 2006 8:53 pm

A newbie to computing at the moment has a stunning range of FREE software available!

At home, I use linux (suse10 at the moment) exclusively.
I use Openoffice2 for wordprocessing, spreadsheets, etc.
I use Dia for flowcharts, evolution for email,firefox for the web,GIMP2 (what a program!) for image manipulation, Digicam for my photos, Mplayer and Amarok for my media,Kopete for messaging, etc,etc.
At work, I use many of the same programs on my windows desktop, or on my dual boot laptop.

The thing is this. For example,GIMP may not have all the capabiliites of Photoshop (which I have to know how to use, we sell colour printers), but it is far easier to learn and faster in operation.
Openoffice may be slow to launch, but it is easier to learn and use than the MS offering ( Which again, I have to know, because we support it with our printers)

and so on..

I have been using various applications since a 486 was a fast PC, and Deluxe Paint was a benchmark.

Recently , I had to produce an "idiot's guide" to one of our products for a large customer. I used GIMP and OOo.
This was a matter of combining screenshots, digital photos drawn pointers, etc. and text.
I found the Opensource packages easier and quicker to learn and use than the expensive, feature laden and resource hungry proprietary products.
After abandoning Photoshop CS2 as too cumbersome and slow, the GIMP was a breath of fresh air, OOwriter was simple and fast compared to word XP.
(and it put the pictures in the right place).

I think that the people who "must have" photoshop (my daughter included) are mainly just not willing to change.

Many software packages these days are feature rich, usability compromised, and so overpriced that they are not worth buying.

We sell windows solutions for printing and archiving, and we try to go for the solutions that are simple, easy to learn and reliable.

In fact, these days when quoting, it often takes longer to work out the licensing costs than the customer requirements..
Some print management products are actually so expensive that it would take 5 years to recoup the cost based on management savings on 500 users. It would be cheaper just to give printing away!
The sig between the asterisks is so cool that only REALLY COOL people can even see it!

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RE: How many people actually need adobe photoshop?, office,e

Postby GMorgan » Sat Apr 15, 2006 1:19 am

I've said it before. The only thing you pretty much have to use proprietry software for is for gaming and even that may change (obviously depending on Longhorn and DX10). I'm more than happy using OOo and Amarok and have used Firefox since V0.6 a few years back. It's only Excel which is really quite a bit better than the open source equivalents but that will change as Calc becomes more efficient and do I really use such a large spreadsheet that Calc slows down. No.
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Postby Hello » Sun Apr 16, 2006 8:05 pm

Again its access and excel where the problem lies. I also occasionally do some vb but there should be a decent open source equivilent of that.

The only reason I will be using windows from now on will be to game which hopefully should be speeding things up because I wont install network so no need to for av and firewall etc and my windows install wont get clogged
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Postby TheDoctor » Sun Apr 16, 2006 10:26 pm

The crucial thing for me in deciding to migrate to Linux was the release of OpenOffice 2.0, whch is when OO became a viable alternative to MSOffice. Before that, MSWord was still the superior product.

I'd abandoned Internet Explorer long before that, having moved on, first to Opera, then on to FireFox, once it was able to use internet shortcuts to find a web address. So, by last year, I'd got myself to the state where I was using a Windows PC but mostly running software that was avaliable on Linux. Migration wasn't going to be a big probelm after that.

But I'm stil running my Windows machine, for a number of rwasons. One is that I use a lot of software that isn't available under Linux, such as Photshop, Serif Page Plus, etc. Maybe I'll start using the Linux alternatives eventualy, but I don't see the need to rush.

The second reason is that I maintain a couple of web sites and I need to be able to check what they look like with Internet Explorer. Most people (still) use one or another versions of that, and I can't really ignore them.

The third reason is that - as we all know - lots of hardware wil only run on Windows machines, since manufacturers do not provide Linux drivers. By finding a KVM switch that works with Linux (the subject of my first posts in these parts) and getting Samba to work (also a non-trivial task for me), I can now use my Windows PC as a hardware interface to my Linux one. It's an easy matter for example, to use my scanner (for which there is no Linux driver) to put a file into a Linux directory. And, if necessary, I can use a Windows software package to manipulate it.

So those are my three reasons for hanging on to Windows.
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Postby Nigel » Sun Apr 16, 2006 11:17 pm

I don't need Photoshop, but I still prefer using it to Gimp.

Sorry to disagree with you, wyliecoyoteuk, but I don't find the Gimp at all easy to use - I think the user interface is dreadful. I'll agree it can do pretty much everything the average Photoshop user wants, but I still think it has a far steeper learning curve. I can have the simple stuff I want done with Photoshop (LE or Elements in my case) by the time I've figured out just which window the button I want is hidden in with the Gimp.
Maybe if I was using it every day I'd think differently, but I'm not...
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Postby starbug » Sun Apr 16, 2006 11:43 pm

I'll have to agree with Nigel on this one. The GIMP has a positively *dreadful* user interface. Why are all the menus, palettes and canvas dismembered and scattered all over the desktop? i much prefer having the menu options on top of the canvas, like they are with all the other paint programs.

As far as photoshop goes, I have got Photoshop 7 running on my Linux laptop.

There is also a graphics package called Pixel, which I want to try out.

I have also installed OpenOffice 2.0.2; I must say it has come a long way since i last tried it, and it has replaced MSOffice in my eyes, especially since you can get it to save to MSOffice formats by default. it really has become a good, polished product.
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Postby wyliecoyoteuk » Mon Apr 17, 2006 9:11 am

starbug wrote:Why are all the menus, palettes and canvas dismembered and scattered all over the desktop?
.


???
As far as I am aware, there is only one toolbox window, and multiple canvases make editing and combining multiple canvases easy, especially if you have 2 monitors :)

Maybe I'm twisted, but I like the Gimp interface, it makes sense when I have 5 or 6 windows with different images open, to have the tools in their own window.
Other paint programs have floating toolboxes, in fact If I remember correctly, when I was learning Photoshop 3 (or 4, I'm not sure) on a Mac many years ago, it had a very similar setup, and can be altered to run that way now ;)
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Postby Cogar » Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:25 pm

I am anxiously waiting for the time I can drop Windows and Windows-based programs forever. Still, there are presently some programs for which no reasonable Linux alternative yet exists. An example is Dreamweaver for web design. (NVU is OK, but not in the same league.) OCR programs and page layout programs (like Adobe InDesign) are nonexistent in Linux--as far as I have been able to determine anyway. Finally, as has been said before, new hardware support--especially for laptops--is lacking. I feel very nervous recommending Linux to anyone who has not used it before and has a laptop, whether it is old or new. Although I am not that fond of Windows XP, I am quite sure it will install and run most hardware, even if it includes relatively obscure video, networking, and wireless cards.
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Postby nelz » Wed Apr 19, 2006 12:03 pm

There is an OCR program for Linux, gocr. Kooka, the KDE scanning program, uses this to add OCR capabilities.
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." (Albert Einstein)
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Postby Marrea » Wed Apr 19, 2006 1:06 pm

I have to agree with Nigel and starbug about the user interface of GIMP. I too have Photoshop LE and Elements and find them much, much more user friendly than the open source version.

I like Open Office though. It is almost as good as MS Office, but I can't for the life of me think why OOo Writer doesn't have a simple File, Page Setup, Portrait/Landscape setting like Word.
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Postby wyliecoyoteuk » Wed Apr 19, 2006 7:34 pm

Cogar:
I use Quanta plus for web pages, maybe not up to Dreamweaver, but I don't need the sophistication of DW.
Page Layout -Scribus is excellent.
Diagrams and flowcharts- Dia may be a little eccentric- but it does what I want ( and it has the seperate tool window that you dislike, and I like :P. )

The question was not Is GIMP better than Photoshop, or OOo better than OfficeXP, but how many people actually NEED the extra "features".
In my opinion, many Windows Apps are overburdened with extra gimmicks that only a handful of people ever use (assuming that they can find them in the first place).

This the legacy of having to add "features" every year or two to justify the repeat upgrade price, and it is getting to the point where people have to be retrained every couple of years to do the same job!

Often hardware support is lacking for Linux because it is deliberately hampered- DVD replay, Winmodems, GDI printers, faxes and scanners, Windows mobile devices,- these are difficult to use with Linux, but that is because they are often deliberately written to use proprietary software, for various reasons.
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Postby Marrea » Thu Apr 20, 2006 9:32 am

wyliecoyoteuk wrote:
The question was not Is GIMP better than Photoshop, or OOo better than OfficeXP, but how many people actually NEED the extra "features".
In my opinion, many Windows Apps are overburdened with extra gimmicks that only a handful of people ever use (assuming that they can find them in the first place).


Some people need them, some people don't. Everyone has different requirements. Certain features are useful to some while other people would never use them. Personally, I think MS Office is a fantastic suite (I use it all the time at work and frequently at home) and I'd rather have the extra features than not. They can sit there quite happily doing nothing when I don't want them but when I suddenly find I do need a certain feature am I glad it is there. I would far rather pay £300 for MS Office (as I have done for my home computer) than c. £70 for the rag-bag MS Works. The only thing that is useful for is Word (if you get the Works Suite version).

Basically people buy what they want and what they feel they can justifiably afford. To me, MS Office is worth every penny of £300. As a secretary it is a vital tool of my trade and enables me to easily produce well-laid out work. However, I would not buy the full version of Photoshop because the LE/Elements versions do everything I (as an amateur photographer) want. If I were a professional photographer I would no doubt buy the full version as I would need all the extra features.

If people didn't want these programs, they wouldn't buy them and there would be no more Adobe.

This the legacy of having to add "features" every year or two to justify the repeat upgrade price, and it is getting to the point where people have to be retrained every couple of years to do the same job!
software, for various reasons.


Yes, but adding "features" every year or two is true for most things we buy these days, be it cars, computers or whatever. :wink:

You don't need retraining. You just pick it up as you go along.
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Postby Hello » Thu Apr 20, 2006 4:59 pm

I will admit I am looking at getting crossover office so I can use Access and Excel as for photoshop I always prefered paint I reckon its the best product ms made I hope it dosent get scrapped with vista
Last edited by Hello on Thu Apr 20, 2006 5:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby TheDoctor » Thu Apr 20, 2006 5:13 pm

Hello wrote:I will admit I am looking at getting crossover office so I can use Access and Excel as for photoshop I always prefered pain I reckon its the best product ms made I hope it dosent get scrapped with vista


Photoshop is made by Adobe, not Microsoft.
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Postby Hello » Thu Apr 20, 2006 5:23 pm

TheDoctor wrote:
Hello wrote:I will admit I am looking at getting crossover office so I can use Access and Excel as for photoshop I always prefered paint I reckon its the best product ms made I hope it dosent get scrapped with vista


Photoshop is made by Adobe, not Microsoft.


But Microsoft made paint + Corrected my typos
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