State of the world Today

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State of the world Today

Postby shifty_ben » Sat Apr 22, 2006 10:06 pm

What is happening to the world? I have just had Two 14 year olds pull knives on me, the way the law is today had I hit them it would have been me that gets done. Not them. Police aint an option, they aren't worth it. So what do I do? hope I dont get stabbed?

We need to sort this country out, kids like that will soon be adults and then the country is screwed.
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RE: State of the world Today

Postby nordle » Sat Apr 22, 2006 11:53 pm

dude thats frickin bang out of order! Glad to hear your in one piece though, a strong brew always helps!

I used to live in a reasonably dodgy part of birmingham, mans running round with glocks and machettes. They get away with it, the kids see this and carry on, a good example is perry bar, not where I lived but an area we knew. In 98 it was ok but going down hill, since then it made the news with the Burger Bar Boys and the Johnson Crew madness. Only a street apart, but its territory and its war. It's pathetic, but most of these kids have no clue of the world outside of a 5mile block.

To respect others they need to appreciate other people, other countries, have respect for the world and themselves.

Problem is, as you say, the law is very straight, so unfortunately you can easily be on the wrong side of it, which seems unjust, but for the law to work it needs to be the same for everyone (we all know its not of course).

Violence breeds violence, they carry knifes so you take a baseball bat, so they take a 9mm etc next thing you know its a bad day in bosnia instead of suburban brum.
We started running round in bigger numbers to counter their numbers, but its just escalates to mindless acts as people get caught up in their own little world, beef dominates over common sense.

The only answer is the law, unfortunately its not great, will probably create more grief. But you've got to look at the end game, ultimately something has to be done, so why wait 6-24 months in which time the situation has got a lot worse. Get in contact with fuzz asap, they may only increase patrols in the short term, but its the only real answer. These kids need to be picked up on the radar of the system, there ARE good people in correctional facilities who CAN make a difference, yes its possible and a good thing to change these kids behaviour. It often doesn't work, but you've got to play with the cards you hold, and currently the legal system is the only royal flush we have really.

Also, mention this to everyone you know in the area, as crap as neighbourhood watch sounds, that kind of thing. People know poeple, the right word in the ears of the right poeple can get results. If kids feel shame, if they know the whole community recognises who they are and the whole area acts to solve the problem its amazing how the power of conformity eventually takes over.

The other answer is to abandon ship, if its truly going down, then don't go down with it.
Of course why should you and its not always that simple, it depends on the balance of course.
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RE: State of the world Today

Postby shifty_ben » Sun Apr 23, 2006 12:20 am

Problem is this was just outside work so a) do I report it to them and deal with the paperwork when in reality the only person (at work at least) they are a danger to is me and b) do I give up my job (never going to happen) The worst thing is it happened 3 minutes work from the biggest police station in our town. On the plus side I was waiting for the bus, and the buses CCTV is very likely to have caught them so I have already got the details I need to get a copy of the tape on monday (Data Protection Act allowing of course ;) ) my company has a _very_ good legal department, and as I know a few people higher up the business the Data Protection aspect can soon be overcome. Its not the first time I have run into these 2, and both times there have been problems (though this is the first time it has involved a knife) Irony is two years ago I would have had no qualms about fighting knives or no knives, but I seem to have grown far more sensible.

My plan as I see it for now, is as I am not overly worried about my safety (Ive been stabbed before and Im still here) is to obtain the CCTV tape and lock it in the safe at work so that if we get any trouble from them there then there is additional evidence, and also so that if things escalate I have some evidence to prove that it is not me looking for trouble.

Funny you mention the escalation, my first thought when I got home was to phone up a few mates and go pay them a visit. I probably shouldn't mention this on T'internet but they both come from a Social Services 'facility' across the road from work.

I grew up in a very rough area, in fact when we moved out of there I missed the sound of sirens so much I couldn't sleep and eventually moved back. Like I say 2 years ago I would have had no qualms about dealing with them both there and then, now its not so had only one of them had a knife (and they werent exactly penknives) I probably would have though what the hell and gone all in, but two knives? Not worth the risk really.

To respect others they need to appreciate other people, other countries, have respect for the world and themselves.


Funny you say that, given that one of them just kept saying you should give my bruv some respect mate. Got to laugh really given that they don't even know the definition of respect.

Main worry at the moment is that they may well come back, they must no believe they have menaced me, next thing you know they will be back looking for more trouble, all out of a sense of fun.

I really really dont want to go to the cops, I hate dealing with them - presumable a legacy from my err.. questionable.... past.

Just wish these kids would realise that theres more to life, at the end of the day there was always a risk I'd have taken one of the knives and used it on them. Stupid really.
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RE: State of the world Today

Postby Nigel » Sun Apr 23, 2006 8:52 am

Ben - glad you're OK. You must report this & let the law deal with it - their next victim may not be so lucky.
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RE: State of the world Today

Postby shifty_ben » Sun Apr 23, 2006 8:59 am

I suppose you are right. The bus driver mentioned they have had problems with them before, so i guess Ive got a responsibility to do so. I'm going to give the bus company a ring today and see if the guy I need to speak to is about, if not then ill phone him tomorrow.

Funny really, this all seems to have started because I I.D's done of them for cigarettes!

I'm going to phone the Social services place they are from and do a bit of recon, might as well find out as much about them as I can before I get the fuzz involved. I get the glorious job now of going through all our CCTV to find the 1st incident which happened within the branch.

Ah well its off to work I go. Been a few incidents like that recently, wonder if its time to invest in some kevlar ;)
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RE: State of the world Today

Postby spottedcat » Sun Apr 23, 2006 9:16 am

Ben, let me say too - glad you're OK. But do please report this to the police. Do your own detective work if you must, but let the police do theirs. It's what they're paid for. And report it sooner rather than later.

Take care now.
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RE: State of the world Today

Postby shifty_ben » Sun Apr 23, 2006 4:33 pm

I have now reported it. More as an information log than a formal complaint however, SO the beat cop will patrol the area a bit more, but then kids will not be directly contacted about it unless they commit some other crime. After all we all know they would get off lightly, so I figured best way to do it.
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Re: RE: State of the world Today

Postby emyr42 » Sun Apr 23, 2006 5:41 pm

shifty_ben wrote:Ah well its off to work I go. Been a few incidents like that recently, wonder if its time to invest in some kevlar ;)


kevlar only works for bullets, ben...

the anti-knife jacket used by the police is (iirc) articulated overlapping titanium plates.
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RE: Re: RE: State of the world Today

Postby shifty_ben » Sun Apr 23, 2006 10:21 pm

kevlar only works for bullets, ben...


Preparing for the future ;) I have to admit, despite my dislike for the police, they were quite understanding. The copper I spoke to was less than surprised when I told her where the kids were from.
Ive come to the conclusion that as much as I would currently love to give these kids a good thrashing, it may be more intelligent just to walk down to the next bus stop given that I always end up waiting a good 20 mins for the bus anyway.
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RE: Re: RE: State of the world Today

Postby pins » Mon Apr 24, 2006 5:38 am

how far is the journey home? try cycling. I find that on a bike you're usually moving fast enough that 'undesirables' like that don't get time to cotton on to your presence.
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RE: Re: RE: State of the world Today

Postby nelz » Mon Apr 24, 2006 8:24 am

I'm sure nordle will second that suggestion :D
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RE: Re: RE: State of the world Today

Postby M-Saunders » Mon Apr 24, 2006 8:44 am

Jeepers! Glad you're alright Ben...

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RE: Re: RE: State of the world Today

Postby shifty_ben » Mon Apr 24, 2006 10:51 am

CHeers guys

how far is the journey home? try cycling. I find that on a bike you're usually moving fast enough that 'undesirables' like that don't get time to cotton on to your presence.


I used to cycle it, but I haven't got around to repairing my bike yet. Perhaps I should. I'm going to a gig tomorrow, and I have been waiting months for it, so I think tonight I will wait at a different bus stop just to be safe, I have no intention of missing this gig!
Well both boys have already got records it would seem, so I'd say Im on fairly solid ground (legally speaking) if I do have to defend myself.

I'm sure nordle will second that suggestion


Wonder if rather than causing traffic jams on my bike, Nordle will give me a lift home ;)

Funny really, even after all this, the reason I don't want to go to work today is I can't be bothered!
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RE: Re: RE: State of the world Today

Postby crispibits » Mon Apr 24, 2006 10:58 am

Glad you're OK Ben, and glad you reported it. It may not seem as though it helps, but it's another number to go down to show our lovely government that not everything is rosey. Far more importantly though, what's the gig you're going to?
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RE: Re: RE: State of the world Today

Postby shifty_ben » Mon Apr 24, 2006 11:09 am

Im off to see H.I.M at the carling academy, Brixton.

My main concern (other than not wanting to get stabbed) is that if anything ever happened, then the media would have a field day. The papers in our area are a lot like the American Press in that they will twist anything to make the story say what they want. I work in an offlicence so next thing you know it will be an alcohol related crime!

One thing I will say is that in a thread somewhere on the forums, people were saying how annoyed they get when they get ID'd, and some said they would just walk out as the retailer doesn't deserve their custom. AS I sadi then IDing people is far more hassle for us than you. Although I never imagined it could be this serious! Still the law is the law and there is no way they are buying their fags from me.
It is a pity though because some of the kids from that institution come in, and are friendly and polite, even when they get ID'd unfortunately the other 30% make up for them with their agressiveness.
I remember when they released the plans to build the school, everyone in the area (its a quiet little town on the suburbs of Ipswich) was against it =, saying it will bring troublemakers into this area, drugs problems, grafitti and so on. Baring in mind the High School in this area thought they ahd a drug problem when a kid was caught with paracetomol ;) In some ways they were right, it has brought troublemakers. There are certainly more drugs in the area (though nothing too hard as far as I can tell) but with the exception of some of the carers at the institution, that place is doing a very worthwhile job. Unfortunately they are not doing as good a job as they should be in terms of ensuring the dangerous element are properly supervised.
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