Why do some Linux-ers hate Windows?

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Why do some Linux-ers hate Windows?

Postby rctxtreme » Tue Dec 12, 2006 5:15 am

Sure, Windows is paid, full of viruses and such, but think about it.

- If Windows was not popular and Linux was, I'm sure there would be much more viruses for Linux than Windows
- Drop a total n00b at computers guy on... Xandros. Let's see how long it takes before he/she gets angry and starts slamming the computer...
- ...or get slowly angry as he/she continually opens "INSTALL" in an install package or gets confronted with "sdl_pango not found" or some other random error
- Games support is limited.
- Little computer manufacturers support Linux

And even in LXF, someone says "Oh, and by the way, Bill Gates just quit his job". OK, I'm not a Windows fanatic, but seriously, what was the point in saying that? Making Linux users jump for joy and make Windows readers who are interested angry as soon as they found out this was made-up?

Even frozen bubble hates Windows - "Windows is a proprietary platform, [and proprietary stuff is crap]"

So please, tell me why you people are against Windows.

And once again, I am NOT a Gates hugger. I'm just wondering why.
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Re: Why do some Linux-ers hate Windows?

Postby TheDoctor » Tue Dec 12, 2006 9:35 am

rctxtreme wrote:- If Windows was not popular and Linux was, I'm sure there would be much more viruses for Linux than Windows


This is not true. There is actually evidence that it isn't true. Although Windows is more widespread on the desktop than Linux, there are actually more Linux servers than Windows ones. Yet you don't get Linux server viruses, but do get Windows ones.

The reason there are Windows viruses and not Linux ones is because Windows, at its heart, is insecure. Security is buiilt on top of the Windows operating system (or, pedantically, systems - since both are families of OSs), whereas, with Linux (or, pedantically, the Unix family of OSs), security is built into the heart of the system.

This doesn't, by the way, mean (as soem people think) thaty you shouldn't worry about the possibility of a Linux virus. Worrying about security right atthe start, before it was even a problem, is what has made the *nix operating systems so safe.
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RE: Re: Why do some Linux-ers hate Windows?

Postby M-Saunders » Tue Dec 12, 2006 9:48 am

OK, there are zealots, who treat it all as a gigantic battle and hate every single thing Microsoft does. They believe Linux is the solution to absolutely every problem and take any criticism of the OS as a personal affront. You'll find the same kind of people for every OS.

But you won't find that kind of attitude here. There are many genuine reasons to be unhappy with Microsoft -- primarily how the company has stifled genuine innovation in the computing world through anti-competitive practices. There are a lot of people who've paid good money for Microsoft software, only to be let down with bugs, problems and security holes, and who move to Linux with -- naturally -- some anti-Microsoft sentiment.

I personally have little interest in Microsoft. I moved from the Amiga to Linux, with a quick three-month stopgap on Windows 95. So I've not had to suffer many Windows problems :-)

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RE: Re: Why do some Linux-ers hate Windows?

Postby evilnick » Tue Dec 12, 2006 10:06 am

... and Bill gates is quitting his job

;)
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RE: Re: Why do some Linux-ers hate Windows?

Postby nelz » Tue Dec 12, 2006 10:47 am

Is that his job as Evil Overlord of Software or his job as Mr Nice Guy Philanthropist?

:)
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." (Albert Einstein)
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RE: Re: Why do some Linux-ers hate Windows?

Postby Moodel » Tue Dec 12, 2006 10:47 am

I work with Windows daily in my role with IBM. I don't hate it I just get on with it and do whatever is required to keep it working (which isn't actually that much). I do a fair bit with AIX, Linux and various other Unix platforms as well so I'm not really biased either way.

My primary OS at work is Linux (Kubuntu).

What M-Saunders said above is correct though, but not necessarily something to hate MS/Windows for. Linux can be used for a solution to every problem (except upto date gaming) but then so can MS it just costs more if you choose the MS route.

The difference with MS is that they advertise they push their products quite hard, they have slick advertising and plenty of money to throw around so its a bit more in your face.

For your average anti-conformist I can imagine that must really pi$$ them off and hence they take up the flag to hate MS...........hope that makes sense :)
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RE: Re: Why do some Linux-ers hate Windows?

Postby GMorgan » Tue Dec 12, 2006 11:14 am

I don't hate Windows I use it fairly regularly though I do try and use Linux solutions where possible which is most often. Generally I use Windows purely for games and Linux for everything else.

As for insecurity, Windows has its GUI built into the kernel and encourages you to run as root. Just about all interprocess communication is done via RPCs which are more insecure than simpler tools like pipes (though potentially you can do more with RPCs which is why Linux has them as well, we just don't use them unless they're needed). Also it has layers upon layers of APIs and other unnecessary code bloat, remember every line of code is a potential insecurity and Windows has more unnecessary lines of code than any system ever. Vista addresses the first 2 but does nothing about the RPCs and exacerbates the code bloat beyond all recognition.

Comparatively Linux is a leaner system that installs as much code as you actually need rather than every piece of code everyone ever needs (this is why we have separate distros, each specialises). We also distribute access across user accounts whereas Windows tends to bundle all the power in one user. Think of it as the difference between the US political system and the British one. In Britain you can get any majority and have unrestricted power (Windows style), in the US they have power separation and only devolve into the same system as us if the same people manage to take all powers (i.e. they become root).
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RE: Re: Why do some Linux-ers hate Windows?

Postby davecs » Tue Dec 12, 2006 12:56 pm

Well this LX-er hates Windows for an altogether more practical reason. Everyone I know expects me to sort their computers out for them, and it's hard. Most of them run Windows XP and just trying to get to a folder, or connect to the internet, is a nightmare. In attempting to make the system "idiot proof" they've actually made it hard to work with.

OK at work, someone else has done it for me, and in that sense it's no different to using Linux at home, there's a Start menu, and loads of stuff on it.

I spent the whole day on Friday trying to get someone on the internet via a wireless connection. They had their computer a few months, and there was nothing much on it, but the ISP software was rubbish, and even when I logged direct into the router, nothing seemed to work. At the end, I had to re-install Windows, then set up their wireless with MAC security only, and we were finally able to establish a connection. I also took my laptop with me, and added the MAC address from that to the router. I did a live DVD re-install (my own ACER-laptop-with-ATi backup of PCLinuxOS) and the network was just found.

A few days earlier, I had tried to fix my sister in law's computer, it turned out that MacAfee anti-virus caused the computer to freeze about 5 bootups after 6, and on the 6th, any attempt to open the Security Centre also caused the same freeze. So next time I went to Control Centre, uninstalled MacAfee, downloaded and installed AVG, and everything took off. Which is the other thing I hate about Windows, that you get drawn into stuff just because it came with the computer. She would have been paying for the very software that was messing up her system in a few months time.

Did a bit of reading when I got home, because on that occasion my PCLOS LiveCD did not connect to the wireless and could not figure the screen. Mind you, I got the necessary knowledge on the net when I got home, reckon I'll have her converted in about 20min next time I go there, let's hope so, eh?
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RE: Re: Why do some Linux-ers hate Windows?

Postby nelz » Tue Dec 12, 2006 2:32 pm

Why do so many Windows users hate Windows?

I can't think of another product that gets so many complaints from its users, yet they continue to use it.
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." (Albert Einstein)
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Re: RE: Re: Why do some Linux-ers hate Windows?

Postby Marrea » Tue Dec 12, 2006 2:34 pm

davecs wrote: So next time I went to Control Centre, uninstalled MacAfee, downloaded and installed AVG, and everything took off.

Have to agree with you there. I have become steadily more and more disillusioned with Norton AntiVirus (which at one time I used to swear by) with each new release. It's now just a load of bloat which slows everything down. I too have converted to AVG Free.
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Re: RE: Re: Why do some Linux-ers hate Windows?

Postby Marrea » Tue Dec 12, 2006 2:36 pm

nelz wrote:I can't think of another product that gets so many complaints from its users, yet they continue to use it.


Um, British Rail ? :wink:
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Re: RE: Re: Why do some Linux-ers hate Windows?

Postby MartyBartfast » Tue Dec 12, 2006 3:15 pm

Marrea wrote:
nelz wrote:I can't think of another product that gets so many complaints from its users, yet they continue to use it.


Um, British Rail ? :wink:


Yep, I was gonna say that too

BTW, back on topic, I dislike MS mainly for their business practices that have crushed competition and stiffled innovation, and consequently meant that they could get away with producing a lot of S/W that just wasn't really good enough.
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Re: RE: Re: Why do some Linux-ers hate Windows?

Postby nelz » Tue Dec 12, 2006 3:40 pm

Marrea wrote:Um, British Rail ? :wink:


That says it all really :(

Although, to be fair, it's a long time since I picked up a virus when travelling by train :)
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RE: Re: RE: Re: Why do some Linux-ers hate Windows?

Postby towy71 » Tue Dec 12, 2006 3:40 pm

I don't use windows much any more, but then I use my computer mostly for communication apart from playing from Ace of Penguins and prboom; however I do spend a fair amount of time helping family, friends and neighbours who use windows in all its guises. Cleaning up the mess of spyware malware and viruses that proliferate amongst the less savvy out there.

GMorgan has it right in his second paragraph; technically the lack of security is built in especially with regard to Outrage Express, Internet Exploder and overActiveX , the rollback ability tends to gobble up more space as the system tries to keep up with all the various secondary software applications that need to be installed and of course there are the really hidden files that can be recovered and allow people to find out all sorts of personal information that the user thinks they have deleted.

Microparp of course don't help with their campaign of "Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt" which they have waged against Linux from the get go, indeed at the same time as endorsing a deal with Novell they also accuse all other users of Linux are using Microparp's "Intellectual Property". For a company that have been convicted of copyright theft and monopolistic practices (have they paid that fine yet?) they certainly don't change. They hate Linux!
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Postby TheDoctor » Tue Dec 12, 2006 5:16 pm

nelz wrote:
Marrea wrote:Um, British Rail ? :wink:


That says it all really :(

Although, to be fair, it's a long time since I picked up a virus when travelling by train :)


It's a long time since British Rail ran the trains.

And, given the current state of the UK railways there's a lot of people getting nostagic about British Rail. I can't see the same thing happening if Microsoft was broken up and sold off.
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