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Microsoft Tax, Is it worth it?
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coolclassic
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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2007 7:45 pm    Post subject: Microsoft Tax, Is it worth it? Reply with quote

Microsift tax $50 (£26) http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070525-windows-tax-is-50-according-to-dell-linux-pc-pricing.html

My query is if microsoft tax is just £26 then is this a price worth paying to ensure working drivers, new games and everything works out of the box.

Linux is trying to compete by offering free OS (and I am talking about price) but the competition seems to have gone one better.

Also consider many MS users are happy to use demos instead of spending big money on fully functional software, this can also negate the advantages that opensource software can offer.
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donoreo
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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2007 7:51 pm    Post subject: RE: Microsoft Tax, Is it worth it? Reply with quote

I am sure the MS tax is not just $50, I bet Dell is just making more profit on the units sold with Linux on them.
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coolclassic
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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2007 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe so, but window users are not as intelligent as linux users.
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towy71
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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2007 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK will you be happy to pay $50 for beta software, with no guarantee that the hardware (printer, scanner, webcam etc.) you already have will work now or at any time in the future?
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coolclassic
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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2007 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Exactly. So how can we expect the public to migrate to linux?
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nelz
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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2007 9:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Microsoft Tax, Is it worth it? Reply with quote

coolclassic wrote:
Linux is trying to compete by offering free OS (and I am talking about price).


No it is not. Linux is offering free software as in you are free to use it as you wish. Linux itself isn't even trying to compete with windows, although many of the distros are.

If it were all about price, how do Red Hat, SUSE and Mandriva sell so many distros?
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coolclassic
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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2007 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The issue I was trying to present was not the free software model that Linux represents. But the many discussions that have been highlighting the importance of the microsoft tax and how the dell deal has shown how small this is. My point is that this is a very small amount considering the easy of use windows gives to the consumer. Many of the linux distro's are trying to get into the consumer market at greater costs than $50, what hope have they if windows is costing so little.
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towy71
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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2007 11:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coolclassic wrote:
--->8---considering the easy of use windows gives to the consumer. Many of the linux distro's are trying to get into the consumer market at greater costs than $50, what hope have they if windows is costing so little.
forgive the hollow laughter easy use is not something that I see from all the people that ask me to help them out Rolling Eyes
Every windows user I know pays much more than the so called windows tax: they all need anti-virus software and other security related stuff, a fair number pay local companies to re-install windows because of the build up of rubbish that they install in the hope of speeding up the blooming computer, then there are problems with using legacy software which no longer works.

Windows user have been badly served by Microparp and with Vasta the average user is beginning to smell a rat Rolling Eyes
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sentient_one
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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2007 11:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now that cpu speeds have almost plateaued, logically there seems little reason to move from current PC with xp, to new pc

Still if u happen to find u need to buy a complete new computer it will likely come installed with Vista and as pointed out the pre install deal will keep Vista pretty much as cheap as linux alternative

Still, is an MS monopoly healthy
What about equipping cheap recycled PCs for the less well off
The pre install system is restrictive
Applications for linux will be predominantly free (though, admittedly some are ported to Windows)
The more linux may flourish, the more new apps will be written for it (think how many apps have been killed off (or very nearly) in windows: lotus, borland, wordperfect, lots of graphic apps, wordstar . . . ) just to be replaced with the B gates like it or lump it (but pay a lot for it) solution
How long before current version of windows becomes obsolete – new ms OS on disks, costly

Yeah, right. I think some consumers are beginning to sense this and some of the newer linux distros are bordering on becoming well tasty – Sabayon?

Regard
S
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nelz
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PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2007 1:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

coolclassic wrote:
The issue I was trying to present was not the free software model that Linux represents. But the many discussions that have been highlighting the importance of the microsoft tax and how the dell deal has shown how small this is.


The amount is not important. For most people this is a point of principle, why should they be forced to buy something they do not want?

Bear in mind that there is also a cost associated with pre-installed Linux, as Dell will have to provide technical support for it, and have little idea of how much that will actually cost them until they actually supply the computers.

coolclassic wrote:
My point is that this is a very small amount considering the easy of use windows gives to the consumer. Many of the linux distro's are trying to get into the consumer market at greater costs than $50, what hope have they if windows is costing so little.


Because it's not all about money. People want choice, which is what Dell is giving them. Whether they take the computer with Ubuntu or Windows is not important, what is important is that they have made that choice, not the vendor.
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coolclassic
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PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2007 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do agree with the principles that linux offers but as an x sales man and retail manager I do feel that the consumer would be more intrested in the extras microsoft offers.

Consider walking into a sales room, you have a MS system and Linux system. The consumer asks what the difference is. The response is

Ms offers the use of all available hardware.
The availability of thousands of games.
Be able to play all movies.
Download music without restrictions.
No command line

These are all facts that most consumers are aware of and when faced with paying £26 more for the extras the consumer will take it.

So is this worth the $50 MS tax to the consumer? compared to the Linux options.
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MikeHarvey



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PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2007 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coolclassic wrote:

Ms offers the use of all available hardware.



Unless, of course, one is running Vaster, sorry, I mean Vista.

coolclassic wrote:

Download music without restrictions.



Well, apart from the restriction in the number of times one is allowed to play it or copy it.

coolclassic wrote:

No command line



Actually, this isn't a disadvantage Windows suffers from. At least, I know ME doesn't, because I was suffering from that the other day (I have an ancient, and possibly dieing Compaq Armada I was trying to revive and add SimplyMepis on.). I can't speak for Vaster because I've never been subjected to it.
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nelz
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PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2007 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coolclassic wrote:
Ms offers the use of all available hardware.


Except for the hundreds of items that only work with old versions of Windows, not the version on most new computers.

coolclassic wrote:
The availability of thousands of games.


Yes, Windows is a good toy and if playing is your thing, it is often the best choice.

coolclassic wrote:
Be able to play all movies.
Download music without restrictions.


So Windows doesn't have DRM and lets you do what you want with your music? I thought it was Linux that did that.

coolclassic wrote:
No command line


So a missing feature is a plus? Even though Windows does have a shell, albeit a very restricted one.

coolclassic wrote:
These are all facts that most consumers are aware of and when faced with paying £26 more for the extras the consumer will take it.


And what's wrong with that? If Microsoft choose to sell their product at an unrealistically low price in a free market, well, it's a free market. People don't complain about Lexmark doing the same and fleecing the customer afterwards.

All this does is show us how much OEMs pay for licences, but that's no surprise, OEM Vista can be bought packaged on a DVD for around £50 for a single copy.
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ollie
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PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2007 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="nelz"]
coolclassic wrote:
All this does is show us how much OEMs pay for licences, but that's no surprise, OEM Vista can be bought packaged on a DVD for around £50 for a single copy.


And £50 is pretty close to the OEM price of Windows Vista Home Basic 32-bit in Australia too. Whereas a retail copy with no discounts works out at about £160 in Australia ($AU1 = 42 pence).

So just to ensure that Microsoft get their software on PCs they discount Windows by 70% for PC builders - and that is not for high volume sellers like HP, Dell, Acer, etc.

Remember this doesn't include any productivity software - that is an optional extra for Windows users. Do a clean install of Windows and see what tasks you can actually do without buying and installing additional software.
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ninja82



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PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2007 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Has anyone considered the cost of maintaining a windows system? Granted I am on a slow dial-up connection, but, I spend hours downloading updates and security patches from microsoft and avg and zone alarm and spybot and ad aware and hosts file and security patches for every piece of software I use. Then of course you have to spend time running scans with all the security software - which reduces your ability to get anything useful done while they are going. It got to the point where I spent as much time maintaining windows as I did actually using windows. That was the day that I chose to switch to linux. Granted there is a fairly steep learning curve initially, and granted there are issues with available drivers and software, but at least I can get my work done with the equipment at hand. I find using and maintaining linux to be less time consuming. This to me is more important than an initial cost.
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