Linux Format forums

[jolharg]

Referring to TuxRadar Podcast Episode 4

I suggest we all make a universal package manager.
It's going to be better than these existing ones. (autopackage, etc)
You should be able to download the file in the universal format from the web OR the repo.
People making Linux software would ideally package in this format straight away as well as the source.
There may be a special server designed to make these packages from source. (Whenever a new package is available , eg detectable from rss, the build server would find it and build it)
There could be static or dynamic versions depending on your tastes.
There should be no more repo tweaking or installing new repos because every app would be in this same universal repo.
There would be an up-to-date directory and a stable directory in the repo so that you could download new software as soon as it becomes available.
There would be the same format built in to proprietary game disks that would autorun.
There would be a very very simple gui for installing the packages like PBI from PC-BSD

E.g.

I want Flash player. I could download it from Flash website, which is a universal install file, or I could download it from the repo. Or I could run it from my CD. My choice. The point is that it would be the same file. In the same format.

Now every time a new version of a package is available, my update icon would pop up and say "Update now?"

Thus, no more hassles. No more building from source when the version you want isn't available in your repo.

One more idea: What's libXXX or gstreamer-plugin-whatever? No more of that either. The packages should be named "MP3 Plugin" "Ogg Plugin" or even just "Support for Proprietary Audio Formats". What's Amarok? No new user would just know that. We need "Audio player" and that's it. And that would be the end of relentless searching.

What do you all think?

[Rhakios]

I think there are already too many "universal" package managers. Autopackage would work just fine if anyone bothered to use it, so would Zero-install.
You might also realise that there are a good many more audio players than Amarok, so that idea won't work either.
_________________
Bye, Rhakios

[jolharg]

I'm not saying that's the only player. It's just an example.

The existing ones are not that good and not very widespread and don't employ all the ideas mentioned here.
If we could get it all to happen, and everyone to use that format, we're pretty much sorted.

[gn2]

It'll never work.

[lok1950]

That limits choice only one Audio player off the top i can think of ten different Audio players each with it's own reason for existence low memory foot print to full GUI to CLI only they all have there place.That and how do you convince existing projects that they are no longer politically correct to fade into obscurity and those Lib's have history most going back to Unix.Of course a distro could hide all that complication for new users which is the tack that *buntu seems to be taking and the essence of FOSS is to fork when the current app doesn't do what you want so there will always be new takes on the old themes

Enjoy the Choice

[Rhakios]

[johnhudson]

The difficulties of getting everyone to standardise on one package are clear with Microsoft's doc format; Microsoft desperately wants to dump it and move on but users have got so used to an outdated standard they won't let it go - very few standards last for ever; even the Babylonian clock system has had to be adjusted to allow for leap seconds!

[jolharg]

Seriously though. I wouldn't leave 9 audio players out, just have their separate program, I can see how names of programs would never have to be "audio player" but at least the system could compile everyone's packages so the package developers wouldn't have to do a thing.
I'm trying to hide complications...
I want to make a "setup.exe" that any distro can install without the shortcomings of 0install or Autopackage.
I would like people to include it in their list of software... eg "mac version, linux version, windows version" as not just a binary or source but the package right there ready to install.
we could still have the distros say "this package is unsafe, remove it", it would be much better than those other formats ideally.

[nelz]

Cuttin out the repos' QA is a great way of spreading malware.
_________________
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." (Albert Einstein)

[wyliecoyoteuk]

[Rhakios]

[jolharg]

The shortcomings of the aforementioned systems are:
They don't have a security verification system, so anyone can just install them.

The main thing is that they're not in a repository as well, which is what I'd like, and not used enough (I know by no fault of their own)
The podcast #4 tells more about this. I'm seriously not good at explaining things.

And:
Autopackage packages are supposed to run, are they not?
If I'm in an internet cafe, and download an autopackage for my offline system, I don't expect to have to download more files than that one, especially the autopackage framework, which mysteriously isn't in my install file!! I've had quite enough of dependencies, thank you!

[Rhakios]

What sort of security verification are your packages going to have, how will that work?
If you're going to have repositories, who will finance and maintain them?

Actually, autopackage can be used off-line, if you have had the forethought to set your computer up to use it, but how were you going to overcome the dependency problem with your packages in off-line mode?

In fact, if you read the autopackage faq, you will see a lot of the problems any universal package manager will have to overcome. If you have viable solutions to them, then you have a potential project, if you don't then all you have is a pipe dream.
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Bye, Rhakios

[jolharg]

Security verification can be sorted out by distro vendors picking out the bad packages, and when the package is installed, it will check if it's in the repos or verified on the server (if it's available)
To maintain the repos, I'd need to have sponsors, or have the Xenon project help out with it.
For sorting out of deps, I'd just download the static version for offline use. That's what it's for.

[Rhakios]

Ah, I see you've not read the autopackage faq: